Nice job, IQ and Friends.

[Sketchy]

How was a unipolar world with increasing incorporation of alliances more dynamic? Again, everyone within your side had the opportunity to do something different. They chose perpetuating unipolarity, which led to the discontent which resulted in IQ. Unipolarity will only be perpetuated if there is an overall lethargy and lack of desire to put effort into the game(I don't mean building higher btw I mean competitive wars), and it's clear for some alliances they wanted something different.

I mean, this war had to happen regardless just to break up the web. So I disagree with you there.

 

I wasn't referring to the war, I was referring to all the shit surrounding it. The war itself might have needed to happen but it could have happened without a lot of the shit slinging and grudge match bs. Ultimately if it continues we'll just end up back where we were a year ago with Paracov vs t$-oo.

[Them]

I wasn't referring to the war, I was referring to all the shit surrounding it. The war itself might have needed to happen but it could have happened without a lot of the shit slinging and grudge match bs. Ultimately if it continues we'll just end up back where we were a year ago with Paracov vs t$-oo.

...and that's what the post you quoted was saying, basically

[Sketchy]

...and that's what the post you quoted was saying, basically

No it wasn't? Lol

 

We were talking about two entirely different things

[Roquentin]

Wall of Text srs transparent reply:

 

 

 

 

 

So I actually remembered through my hang over that this post existed and went back to read it.

 

I'm glad to see that you and I see closely eye-to-eye on the issues of mass messaging members of the opposing coalition to jump ship into a "POW" camp.  It sucks and all it does is aggravate the other side to continue the war as long as possible.  However, I also understand the usefulness of it's psychological impact.  I'm a huge fan of psychological warfare as it makes people do rash things (ib4 Roq goes "SEE SEE HE LIKES TO SPIN STUFF FOR PSYCHO CRAZY STUFF").  

 

For example:  Trolling at right moments in a game (Let's say in LoL) can suddenly turn the tide in your favor with your opponent doing reckless actions...  or it can push them to absolutely embarrass you (stat-wise) when they dedicate their time to ruin your K/D ratio.

 

On one hand, Keegoz was right - this particular move pissed me off.  Actually, it pissed off quite a few folks, I won't lie.  But we expected something like this to happen since Kastor was asking about all the alliances who was "on our side" pretty recent.  We're not completely ignorant here, trust me, although sometimes I wish we were - it may make wars more challenging that way to dip down to that level.

 

On the other hand, Keegoz isn't right - unless Kastor and crew just don't give a damn about their FA situation (Most likely the case, considering the wild speculations they've thrown around at us lately.  Hello DVDCHNDFDHJ).  Pretty solid chance that alliances on our side just won't entertain the idea of assisting their alliances anymore.

 

"We did this because of precedent"  "We also did this because of precedent" etc.

 

That's what we're getting right now.

 

The war wide white peace?  Precedent (168 Day War was the most recently cited source).  The POW camp? Precedent ("New Prisoner's Order" during Silent War was the most recently cited source).

 

Both are legit sources to use, but there's a difference.  In both occasions, those who performed those actions were clearly over their opponents.  At this moment, IQsphere is not clearly over Syndisphere (I'd argue that Syndisphere is over IQsphere, but not a clear case).  In other words, the white peace offer in 168 Day War was a mercy offer to move on once it was clear that those in a superior position would remain as such and there was nothing the other side could do about it without receiving extra outside assistance.  It was an offer, from my understanding, that took a lot of time to discuss and deliberate over.  The POW camp move, looking back to the history of it, was a move to demoralize and make fun of NPO's stubborness when the war was pretty much over with.  (Pretty hilarious name though, gotta admit that)

 

I honestly cannot recall in the history of Orbis, since I've been here, that any POW camp offer had a mass message to each individual member of each opposing alliance.  If it happened, it was definitely before my time in a leadership role.

 

"Why not just accept the white peace offer then?"

 

Well, it was honestly being discussed on the table initially before you guys even threw that offer to us, but you have to understand that there's many alliances here who strongly feel that they deserve reps for the attacks they suffered.  Especially the gang bang on Syndicate.  Why didn't we accept it?  You guys kinda !@#$ed yourselves in the conversations, and then this recent action too.  When you have as many alliances feeling strongly about deserving reps, it literally takes time to get everybody on board with that offer.  When you throw down a 3 hour time window, for example, to accept it?  We're more likely to say '!@#$ you' and move on from that, especially since we're not in a dire situation.

 

"Should ask for an extension!"

 

I think Lordship said it best when he told you folks that you shouldn't throw down a time limited offer with an expectation that we should be asking for extension.  That's not good communication or diplomacy skills.  However, him, Avruch, and I think a couple of others already spoke to you guys about that in the chat.

 

"But I looked back and didn't see anything bad!"  

 

We all saw the conversations, this isn't strictly from me and neither was I the only Syndisphere/Friends leader that saw the chat at that time.  I've personally saw a couple of statements shortly deleted.  The downside of Discord chat.  If I recall, there's still statements from you guys about how that was a nightmare of a chat room during that time.  It's also suspicious that you guys approached a couple of us to discuss on Voice Chat about the war.  Which I don't blame you guys since there's this strong feeling "Oh Hippo will just log dump".  Good way to go around that, but I honestly don't care that much (Plus I only dumped those screens with permission).

 

 

As you acknowledged, it's not unprecedented and I believe individual terms were given in other conflicts. It was never every member of the other side simply because most conflicts didn't drag out that long.  Acting like it's inappropriate here is being overly indignant.

 

I mean, if anyone our side was counting on the support of alliances on yours, the various situations in the lead-up to this should have indiicated otherwise.

 

The war wide peace happened because both sides wanted to end it and had an interest in ending it. The situation certain alliances on your side were in made it appealing. If there hadn't been some strain on your side, it's unlikely it'd be agreed upon. I imagine there are people on your end who don't want it to be a prolonged conflict in this instance.  Our side has operated in the belief yours would have initiated a conflict based on the intelligence given at the time and the decision to go to war was made within hours of having indications that it was going down, so the whole "we were dogpiled unjustly" stuff isn't stuff people will just accept.

 

In this instance, the PoW was targeted specifically at nations that have been pinned down. There are a lot on both sides and newer players have even deleted to get out of their alliances to reroll. There are definitely  a decent amount of nations who aren't in great situations on your side. 

 

It's not about expecting you to ask for an extension. There was no response other than "interesting". No one said it wasn't enough time until after update. You could have easily brought it up or said x can't get on in time due to time zones. We only had clearance for the limited time and we'd have to go back to voting on it to put it back on the table. All the stuff about the time limit only came up after, which is why the extension stuff is brought up. The chat was always heated. The expectation was either you had enough gov online to make a yes or no decision or you'd say it wasn't enough time. 

[Critters]

I'd be pretty happy if I was Kastor

I'd be happy if you were kastor too.

[Them]

No it wasn't? Lol

 

We were talking about two entirely different things

I was referring to my post from earlier...

 

You disagreed with my point that the formation of the Inquisition bloc made politics more interesting, but the attitude towards the "shit slinging and grudge match bs" was the same.

[Sketchy]

I was referring to my post from earlier...

 

You disagreed with my point that the formation of the Inquisition bloc made politics more interesting, but the attitude towards the "shit slinging and grudge match bs" was the same.

I didn't quote you so I was confused and thought you meant Roq/Kastor.

 

I mean the formation of IQ was a good thing for politics, I never claimed otherwise, but forming IQ and creating a polarized bipolar state of politics via drama and grudges are two entirely different things.

 

Bipolarity is only "dynamic" if people aren't so polarized for/against their side that they are locked into it. And that is the state of politics we had for ages. Personally I think everyone needs to take a chill pill lol. 

[Sisyphus]

Our side has operated in the belief yours would have initiated a conflict based on the intelligence given at the time and the decision to go to war was made within hours of having indications that it was going down, so the whole "we were dogpiled unjustly" stuff isn't stuff people will just accept.

Just because you decided to begin an unjust, aggressive war "within hours" doesn't make it any less aggressive or unjustified.

 

In this instance, the PoW was targeted specifically at nations that have been pinned down. There are a lot on both sides and newer players have even deleted to get out of their alliances to reroll. There are definitely a decent amount of nations who aren't in great situations on your side.

Holy mother of contortions. It was an cynical tactic designed to hit alliance morale and target vulnerable players, let's not pretend you guys had righteous intent here.

 

It's not about expecting you to ask for an extension. There was no response other than "interesting". No one said it wasn't enough time until after update. You could have easily brought it up or said x can't get on in time due to time zones. We only had clearance for the limited time and we'd have to go back to voting on it to put it back on the table. All the stuff about the time limit only came up after, which is why the extension stuff is brought up. The chat was always heated. The expectation was either you had enough gov online to make a yes or no decision or you'd say it wasn't enough time.

So there's no excuse for nobody to have asked for an extension, given an extremely limited window but you only had clearance for the limited time and required a consensus to pass an extension?

 

Sounds like asking for an extension would've been pointless. Why even bother applying a limited timeframe at all?

 

Now that I think about it, this looks an awful lot like the same cynical tactic as the mass PM but designed to take advantage of any potential weakness among our alliance leaders - hoping to get an alliance to capitulate in short orderand hopefully stir up conflict in the coalition maybe?

 

Thanks for proving once again that you guys clearly still don't understand what sets our alliances apart from the rest of your ilk.

[Keegoz]

I'd be happy if you were kastor too.

Too bad you're not that lucky

 

On the not wanting this to be a grudge match to be repeated a number of times like we just had, I very much agree. I however don't think IQ will have the capacity to do this again. In saying that, who knows what will happen post-war I just really hope there is a few more shake ups in the political realm so we can really drive out the political staleness that we've run into.

[Senry]

This topic was better in the first 10 pages.

 

Now it's just sad and Roq-filled.

[Roquentin]

I didn't quote you so I was confused and thought you meant Roq/Kastor.

 

I mean the formation of IQ was a good thing for politics, I never claimed otherwise, but forming IQ and creating a polarized bipolar state of politics via drama and grudges are two entirely different things.

 

Bipolarity is only "dynamic" if people aren't so polarized for/against their side that they are locked into it. And that is the state of politics we had for ages. Personally I think everyone needs to take a chill pill lol. 

 

There will always be drama and grudges as long as at least one side firmly decides to hold onto them. In this case, the potential for political change was severely limited due to that factor. In IQ, we saw the alliances that were willing to go let go of grudges/negative perceptions and move on. 

 

I know people on one side that have been locked into it for a long time and not been eager for any change.  The polarization in this regard has been evident for most of the last year.

 

 

Just because you decided to begin an unjust, aggressive war "within hours" doesn't make it any less aggressive or unjustified.

 

 

Holy mother of contortions. It was an cynical tactic designed to hit alliance morale and target vulnerable players, let's not pretend you guys had righteous intent here.

 

 

So there's no excuse for nobody to have asked for an extension, given an extremely limited window but you only had clearance for the limited time and required a consensus to pass an extension?

 

Sounds like asking for an extension would've been pointless. Why even bother applying a limited timeframe at all?

 

Now that I think about it, this looks an awful lot like the same cynical tactic as the mass PM but designed to take advantage of any potential weakness among our alliance leaders - hoping to get an alliance to capitulate in short orderand hopefully stir up conflict in the coalition maybe?

 

Thanks for proving once again that you guys clearly still don't understand what sets our alliances apart from the rest of your ilk.

It's one of the more justified global wars we've seen with no intent to preempt prior to firm intelligence coming to us. 

 

I never said there was righteous intent. It was targeted at vulnerable players just as any PoW camp would be. I don't get the indignation because that's what every PoW camp has been about. 

 

It would have easily allowed us to take it back and potentially get it extended since we had enough people on to vote for the extension.  The reason for the limited timeframe is we didn't want to have to deal with another massive blitz while talking peace, which is what happened when the joint chan was originally proposed and that was specifically explained in the channel. 

Edited May 7, 2017 by Roquentin

[Memph]

I didn't get the message. I feel left out. 

[PackAnimal]

Nuts

Bollocks?

[Sisyphus]

The reason for the limited timeframe is we didn't want to have to deal with another massive blitz while talking peace, which is what happened when the joint chan was originally proposed and that was specifically explained in the channel.

So, you want to start the war but don't want to fight it?

 

Maybe you should be negotiating peace in good faith, then?

[Talostastic]

In this instance, the PoW was targeted specifically at nations that have been pinned down.

 

The targeting was awful then, considering I had 3 Zodiac jump on me, fail to get anything more than a Pyrrhic, and then roll over and play dead while I evaporated their airforces.

 

Or do you mean it was sent to everyone in hopes of reaching the nations that are pinned?

[LostWorld]

that message was destined to those of us who fell in battle so that other could rise. let s praise those brave heroes who tookthe heat of the first wave.

 

[Guest Karl VII]

So, you want to start the war but don't want to fight it?

 

Maybe you should be negotiating peace in good faith, then?

yeah cause we started the war lul

[8mrgrim8]

yeah cause we started the war lul

you did, wow I really hope your kidding.

[Cypher]

you did, wow I really hope your kidding.

The spin doctor back at it again. When will you accept the fact that tS sent a few nations to NPO with the sole purpose of starting a global war against Syndisphere?

 

People like you make me sick.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Cypher

[greatkitteh]

This topic was better in the first 10 pages.

 

Now it's just sad and Roq-filled.

Its better tgan gk filled

[Holton]

Kastor tried to copy old-school BK, turned into an FA disaster. Yup sounds right.

 

Only Yosodog and Strum could get away with the old-days level of !@#$ery.

 

 

From hitting TKR's ally (NPO) to mass-poaching attempts to New Prisoner's Order. Good times.

[Shadowthrone]

Kastor tried to copy old-school BK, turned into an FA disaster. Yup sounds right.

 

Only Yosodog and Strum could get away with the old-days level of !@#$ery.

 

 

From hitting TKR's ally (NPO) to mass-poaching attempts to New Prisoner's Order. Good times.

No, there difference is when they were doing it, they were in your coalition, so you folks didn't give af of the effects. Now that the shoe's on the other foot, its not cool. I mean when we were disappointed by it, we were told to suck it up and take it or git gud lol. Well suck it up and take it. 

[ArcKnox]

We chose git gud instead.

[Senry]

Poor Thomas. Sitting in that alliance, all alone, without even a single friend. All because Inq bloc are failures at propaganda. Sad.

[Kurdanak]

No, there difference is when they were doing it, they were in your coalition, so you folks didn't give af of the effects. Now that the shoe's on the other foot, its not cool. I mean when we were disappointed by it, we were told to suck it up and take it or git gud lol. Well suck it up and take it.

As someone on the opposite side of BK during these past events, I'd disagree. Strum and Yoso have a unique (see: lulzy) execution that works and results in minimum disdain. They and their coalition used that branding in their favour, while you guys failed to do the same by having Kastor and Lordaeron act instead. I really don't know what you expected to happen. Edited May 8, 2017 by Kurdanak