OsRavan

I should add... cause a couple of comments seem like they might be thinking this is bigger then it is... this is disbanding JUST for PW. Not for any other games ODN is in.

Nope most of us are still around in different AAs

ODN Announcement Whelp, as some have guessed, ODN is officially disbanding. I admit to being a little bitter sweet about it. It is 100% the right decision, but as it came time to make this anouncment, I found myself hesitating and feeling a little sad. Purely for nostalgia. But ohh well. Essentially for those who are wondering why, we were getting raided like two dozen times a week. And we had 15 members! So it simply wasn't sustainable, we had more wars then we did during the war. And note: I dont blame the raiders. I would have raided us too, they were just doing what raiders do. There was no one to 'blame' but ourselves for the situation. The reality is, our members are AWESOME people. I've known some of them for over a decade, and most of the new ones I met stuck with us through good times and bad. But we also just weren't very active. With one or two exceptions, they were a "log in once a week or two" sorts. Which, combined with our small size, is just catnip to raiders. We had an internal discussion, and folks were honest that we were unlikely to become MORE active. And considering that, it just seemed the height of foolishness to chug along with the endless raids for no reason. So that's it. The end. I want to thank Ampersand for protecting us these last few months, protecting us NOW as we finish our transition, and welcoming our new members who have come over. Even though they are gone, I want to thank NPO players still around who have remained friends even after the alliance is gone, You all will always have our friendship. And we want to thank Arrgh who are just flat out the coolest pirates on this planet, and great friends. They show that there's no reason you can't be raided with *class* and still remain on good terms. And finally to everyone else, friend and foe, who have fought us honorably, given us good advice, and genuinely made this community a fun place. I hope to see you all around the game in one place or another.

Thanks all! Honestly thought this would go on a while longer as our allies went guerrilla warfare when I made my last thread. But sadly with them leaving the game, there would be no reason but pride to continue with this. So peace is here. Thanks to all those who gave us a good fight. You were mostly honorable opponents who offered us fair terms here. And to our allies and friends who are leaving we will miss having you around. It was an honor to to fight alongside you while we could. You were the best friends we could have asked for.

I highly doubt it is coming from NPO, and i'd ask you not slander folks with no reason. People need to stop with the NPO bogey man for every-time something bad happens. If nothing else, its going to their allies as well. But I do agree on otherwise stopping this. And I also got a second image from a deleted nation. I'm not sure if its connected or not, but I also got a random homophobic insult from an established nation currently in an alliance a couple of days before. At the time I just ignored it chalking it up to someone angry at the war (in general. I wasnt fighting him so it just came in randomly). No idea if it is connected to this now though.

Same.

Well I disagree with you on pretty much everything you wrote. Seems pretty biased to me. And I did read the report. I dont think Alex is lying but I do think he is wrong and has a biased view point himself. As we all do (including me). I've read his report, talked to NPO, seen countless logs. From Alex and ones he chose not to include. And I came to my own conclusion. Doesn't mean its right but I'm not an idiot or a lock-stepped follower. I analyzed what Alex said. What my friends said. Considered it. And came to my own conclusion. My own honest conclusion right or wrong. I dont want to get into it in this thread since nothing positive will come from it. But if you want to know my thoughts feel free to hit me up on discord. But... otherwise... I also don't really care TBH. Im not asking you change how you think, just not to be a jerk. Even if you WERE right, im not sure how all of that justifies being an ass to folks? ::shrugs::. Think of it as practice what you preach. The Golden Rule. Or don't heh. I mean if you feel like ignoring that then do what you will. I'll do what I will. And I imagine we'll both get on with our lives just fine. But thats just a piece of free advice. I tend to find that the sort of attitude you are demonstrating (and for the record im not pretending no one on 'my side' hasn't also demonstrated it... individuals like that everywhere) as what creates the environment where everything is toxic. ::shrugs::, Like we can think each other completely in the wrong here, hate what the other side did, etc. While still keeping in perspective that this is a game and there's no need to make it personal. I imagine most individuals regardless of whether you think they are playing the game wrong are perfectly decent people. And i'm not particularly bitter heh. Believe it or not. Ironically, mostly because I dont follow the political scene super closely, I thought this war was going to be a loss for us when it started. So I was pleasantly surprised when it seemed like otherwise. And resigned now that im losing. Like. I prefer to win of course. But its not what really matters to me. And to your credit, most of your side seems to be offering honorable enough peace terms. So I imagine when the fighting ends, we'll pack up and start rebuilding. Nothing to be bitter about.

Dude could you just... like... not? In this thread? Heh I get theres always a bit of posturing with these things but you've made your point. Maybe be an ass somewhere else? Or just like limit yourself to one post? Or at least argue the *ideas* and *points* without the insults. Like say you think the IDEAS suck, without the attacks or insults on people? I mean, I usually figure everyone is entitlement to one trolly post in a thread! Your first one was fine. No need to keep hammering Heh can't make you I suppose. But to whoever asked up thread why I seldom post. Its stuff like that. Im not even getting into who is right or wrong. Just. Somewhere else? Or keep it polite (or again be rude to the stance and the ideas not the PEOPLE)? Who wants to read (or have their thread) derail into petty internet insults and fighting. Just a random request. And unrelated: Also a thank you all to the folks saying they disagree but good luck (or some variation of that!) I appreciate the sentiment and return it to you! I hope we have a little fun before this wraps up (I imagine if nothing else since I suspect it will be less stalematish it might be less boring to duke it out).

Hey! probably been a while. What have you been up to? Thanks! And pingu is still around on the CN side of things, heh kicking around

haha ohh its mostly been defensive on our parts i would say. If you all stop hitting us we'll probably switch to hitting you. I know on my part lately it has just been lobbing a TON of nukes in defensive wars. But kudos to you all, I think youve mostly been keeping our active guys occupied. like I said, i'm under no pretense that our actions are going to change the course of this conflict at all. And honestly no need to celebrate us I agree. As someone noted, I dont post a ton here, but i got like four or five discords since i woke up this morning so it seemed fitting to clarify our position. Hence this announcement. IMO think of this as a clarification and an explanation. Not something you need to approve or disapprove. It simply is. We'll do our thing and you all will do yours. Speaking personally, I tend to respect anyone that's doing what they genuinely think is right even if I disagree with that decision. Hence why ive no hard feelings for the other side even when I do disagree. Hah. Fair enough. Im at work now but we can chat later tonight maybe (though might be a bit late cause i'm also celebrating my birthday and feeling like an old man). I can certainly sympathize with people who feel this war went on FOREVER. Whatever the reasons, I can't pretend ive not found it boring as heck. And if nothing else, Ive wanted arrgh out for ages (something is wrong when we don't have a free-raiding pirate alliance). I dont have much sway on the higher end of things, but yes I'd have preferred it ended ages ago and haven't made much secret of that. But yeah. That also isn't the most important factor to me. And again no offense if you disagree... as I said I dont think others need to adhere to *our* honor code. But to us, its precisely *because* of how this war has gone that we can't peace out. Perhaps part of it is our disagreement over Admins actions. But, as you said, put that aside. More then that, In my book its precisely when wars are boring, long, dragged out, or hopeless that you DONT peace out. Anyone can be loyal in the good times or quick and easy wars. Its the tough ones that show the mettle. We could come up with a bunch of excuses to leave, and the community here would be fine with it. And NPO are good enough friends im sure they would understand and have no hard feelings. But... we would still have left our allies in a moment of crisis. And then have to look at ourselves in the mirror. And i'm not comfortable with what I would see in said mirror. Until I can feel satisfied that we've done everything in our power to help our friends... we just can't leave. Even if all we can do is absorb some blows and lob some missiles.

Haha no worries. When we first formed our 'friendship' informally with blue we specifically stated that any help we gave each other would not preclude you raiding us! One of the reasons we like you all is your total lack of caring about conventions

ODN Announcement While I recognize we are pretty small fries in these global politics, ive had a lot of folks messaging me asking us what we are doing, offering peace (fair terms i'll grant), asking us for our thoughts, etc. So it seemed fitting to sum it up and clarify our position. First, no we are not removing ourselves from PW or the PW community, though we respect the decision of those who are. Second we do *disagree* with Alex's decision. I just spent a few hours reviewing everything relevant to it, and I think he came to the wrong conclusion for the wrong reasons. And that he has treated NPO unfairly. I won't belabor it here (that argument seems to have happened ad-nasseum along political lines already). If you're interested on why I feel the way I do, feel free to hit me up on discord. Third and most importantly. We are not accepting any peace offers at this time. ODN doesn't really play the safe politics game. As those who know us best could attest, we operate on a strict code of honor and a set of principles. They are our personal code, and we make no claims others should act as we do. But we also try to stay TRUE to that code. More than anything else, no matter what, we back our friends and we adhere to those principles. Its why we've fought a rather boring war for nine months and would have fought it for another nine. Because our friends and that personal code are what matters to us. We didn't enter this war to 'get' any of the enemy. We don't really know half of you, despite slugging this out for like nine months. We certainly don't have any animosity for most of you. It's been fun fighting you on the field of battle. A lot of you are very skilled opponents. I've been very impressed with your coordination on us, and with one or two exceptions you have mostly been polite and honorable opponents. Which is also why we have been largely indifferent to the peace talks, if im being honest. Mostly because... we didn't care other about the peace and we wanted (and want) nothing from it other then that NPO got what they wanted and... despite being on the other side... as much as possible Arrgh got what *they* wanted (go Arrgh!) We came in for our friends in NPO. They remain our friends. We are not naive to the change of fortunes that are occurring in the last 24 hours of this war. But if we were willing to help our friends in NPO when they were on top and things looked peachy (or at least stalematey), we would be the worst sort of knaves to abandon them for an easy exit because right now things look POOR. Especially considering the reasons for that poor situation. My only other hope is that someday we get to do the same for our other friends such as Arrgh (maybe some epic pirate shenanigans when this all finally ends). We are under no illusions that 1) we are anything but small fries compared to the big players on both sides. 2) That folks won't come down hard on us because of this situation. But you know what? Don't care. We have to be true to ourselves and what matters to us. TLDR: NPO... We have your back, brothers. Always. As long as you need us we are proud to fight alongside you no matter the odds.

Yup, to specify what I tihnk needs re-balancing is not what you can DO with spies, so much as it is the whole wiped out in 1-2 attacks but needing two weeks to rebuild part.

Just a random question out of curiosity. Am I the only one that finds spies relatively pointless as they are? I only mention it because I saw a new national project get made for them but i dont think its going to actually fix the root issue. Namely, ive found in the first couple of days of a war, all my spies essentially get wiped out. But the rate of rebuying them is so slow compared to the rest of the military that even if im in beige for like 5 days, I can only build back a fraction of them. And then in one day they get wiped. I dont think having the new project would change that dynamic either. I don't know... it just makes them feel pointless. Maybe thats just about the 'sides' of been on in all my wars here. But at least it has always felt like a rather pointless function to me. Has there been any thought to either increasing the rate at which you buy spies? So like the rest of the military it can be restocked in 3-4 days? Or if we like that spies are different.... perhaps lessen how many get destroyed in espionage? Heh like I said, maybe that's my ignorance of the game. There are other war mechanics I'd probably change (i'd make it easier for losing folks to do damage for instance) but those are just opinions. spies always just seemed broken or pointless to me though. Figured I would see if others agreed or if maybe I was just using them wrong!

I'd echo Malichy. All of these options are horrible and I refuse to vote for any of them. Count me as "here and against all of them." You've completely missed the point of what is wrong with the war system. Which is namely it is *too* one sided to larger nations. Sure they should have an edge. But it shouldnt be a snowballing thing where you can't ever do any damage to them once a war turns against you. The problem is the difficulty in competing with an opponent who is larger then you. All of these suggestions widens the gap and makes it more difficult for players who are newer or dont have an amazing support network alliance to boost them super quickly. It would kill game dynamism. Larger nations already have an INSANE edge. What you need is more ways you can at least HURT them even if you lose wars. Not less. The idea shouldn't be to have a bunch of untouchable overlord nations reigning over a bunch of peons. I'll also add if you want to pick something broken to fix start with spies. The idea you can spend a month building them up and they are all gone in a day or two never to be gotten back for the whole months long war is ridiculous.