Nation Perks

[Alex]

Yes, probably the longest awaited addition ever, is finally coming to a head. I've come up with a draft proposal for how I'd like to see Nation Perks implemented, but I'd like to run it through the mill of feedback to get an idea for potential modifications.

 

The basics of nation perks would be that there are 20 available perks, separated into 5 categories in tree formation. That means that you start with the first perk in the category to unlock the next perk, etc. This keeps everyone from just grabbing the best perks from each category, and forces nations to specialize and be unique.

 

You would not be locked into your perk choice forever, there will be a fee (in resources) to reset your perks that would increase based on your nation score. So, theoretically, in war time you could change your perks to wartime perks, but that would hurt you in peace time, and it would cost a lot to change back and forth frequently. As you became a larger nation, it would be more expensive to change perks and the scaling costs would keep things fair for nations of all sizes.

 

With 20 total perks, my initial thought is that nations should get to choose 8. I think that's a fair balance and will force some tough decisions, while still offering a bit of flexibility in how you choose your perks. Here is a list of the perks I have come up with (using a lot of the suggestions from old perk threads) These are not necessarily set in stone, but don't think I'm going to accept any wild or outrageous perk ideas either.

 

 

I'm thinking a fair cost for resetting your perks would be your nation score * 2 (rounded up to the nearest whole number) in raw resources (Coal, Oil, Uranium, Bauxite, Iron, Lead). This will help create more demand for these resources, and keep people from changing perks willy-nilly.

 

Now, with the perks I have laid out in mind, I'd also like to see which perks you'd choose. If, as part of your replies, you'd lay out which perks you'd take for your particular play-style, that'd be a great indicator of which of these categories are OP and which are underpowered. For example on how you'd do this:

 

 

I always seem to be short units in war, so I'd take all four Military perks. I don't care so much about the extra spy per day, or even the lower upkeep costs, but that 25% more units per day is too sweet of a deal for me to pass up.

I'm a bigger nation, so that 1% population increase would be significant for me. I'd make sure to take that, and then with my remaining 3 perks I'd take the first 3 Development perks. The reduced infrastructure cost is hugely beneficial for a larger nation like mine.

 

Thanks! I'm awaiting your feedback, which I'm hoping will be mostly positive and not the usual "this is a terrible suggestion, you're destroying the game" cynicism 

 

 

[Fox Fire]

So can we remove treasures now?

(And I have no idea what I would choose ATM)

Edited February 17, 2015 by Fox Fire

[Alex]

So can we remove treasures now?

 

This is 100% off-topic of Nation Perks. If you want to discuss treasures, create your own thread. Don't derail this discussion about nation perks.

[Fox Fire]

I'm thinking a fair cost for resetting your perks would be your nation score * 2 (rounded up to the nearest whole number) in raw resources (Coal, Oil, Uranium, Bauxite, Iron, Lead).

What if I don't have that ammount of every resource on hand?

Does it just take all my resources? Or will I not be allowed to reset?

 

Thanks for the warn

Edited February 17, 2015 by Fox Fire

[Phiney]

Does it work from top down? I havnt thought tons about it, will post again once I have, but initially (if its top down) the best war perk doesnt seem like actually the best. you rarely fill all your aggressive slots. 

 

 

What if I don't have that ammount of every resource on hand?

Does it just take all my resources? Or will I not be allowed to reset?

 

Thanks for the warn

 

it'll cost them resources if you want to reset.

Edited February 17, 2015 by Phiney

[Fox Fire]

it'll cost them resources if you want to reset.

Yeah.... I got that much... :facepalm:

[Kastor (Old Account)]

Why resources, why not $$?

[Phiney]

Yeah.... I got that much... :facepalm:

 

What part of COST do you not understand. Obviously if you dont have the required resources you can't reset, as it COSTS that much.

[Kastor (Old Account)]

For Commerce, does it allow you to go over the cap, so you could have 110%, or it stays locked at 100%?

[Phiney]

Id also perhaps suggest a cost per perk to re-position it, instead of to reset them all. 

[elsuper]

For Commerce, does it allow you to go over the cap, so you could have 110%, or it stays locked at 100%?

 

If it does, that seems pretty OP. If my math is correct, a 10% commerce boost at 100% commerce is a 10% gross income boost. Easily beats anything else on that list IMO. If it doesn't allow for going over that cap, that's kinda balanced, basically frees up improvement slots.

Edited February 17, 2015 by elsuper

[Phiney]

Screw it, let's work out what each would save and earn me so we can see how good/bad each is.

Trade

1. +300 food a day (summer)

2. -50k a day in costs

3. +90 coal, +25 Iron

4. Gas +9, steel +40

 

Commerce

1. +18500 pop, around 40-50k +

2. -100k costs

3. -

4. +300k presuming 10% commerce adds 10% to your revenue (cba to do the proper maths)

 

Development

1. -200k in costs per 500 land at 1000 land. pretty big deal when buying land.

2.  -

3. -100k per 100 infra at 1800 infra.

4. -

 

 

 

If it does, that seems pretty OP. If my math is correct, a 10% commerce boost at 100% commerce is 10% total income boost. Easily beats anything else on that list IMO. If it doesn't allow for going over that cap, that's kinda balanced, basically frees up improvement slots.

 

 

if it doesn't go over the cap, it's pretty pointless for a highest tier improvement. 

Edited February 17, 2015 by Phiney

[Speaker Faris Wheeler]

Yes, probably the longest awaited addition ever, is finally coming to a head. I've come up with a draft proposal for how I'd like to see Nation Perks implemented, but I'd like to run it through the mill of feedback to get an idea for potential modifications.

 

The basics of nation perks would be that there are 20 available perks, separated into 5 categories in tree formation. That means that you start with the first perk in the category to unlock the next perk, etc. This keeps everyone from just grabbing the best perks from each category, and forces nations to specialize and be unique.

 

You would not be locked into your perk choice forever, there will be a fee (in resources) to reset your perks that would increase based on your nation score. So, theoretically, in war time you could change your perks to wartime perks, but that would hurt you in peace time, and it would cost a lot to change back and forth frequently. As you became a larger nation, it would be more expensive to change perks and the scaling costs would keep things fair for nations of all sizes.

 

With 20 total perks, my initial thought is that nations should get to choose 8. I think that's a fair balance and will force some tough decisions, while still offering a bit of flexibility in how you choose your perks. Here is a list of the perks I have come up with (using a lot of the suggestions from old perk threads) These are not necessarily set in stone, but don't think I'm going to accept any wild or outrageous perk ideas either.

 

 

I'm thinking a fair cost for resetting your perks would be your nation score * 2 (rounded up to the nearest whole number) in raw resources (Coal, Oil, Uranium, Bauxite, Iron, Lead). This will help create more demand for these resources, and keep people from changing perks willy-nilly.

 

Now, with the perks I have laid out in mind, I'd also like to see which perks you'd choose. If, as part of your replies, you'd lay out which perks you'd take for your particular play-style, that'd be a great indicator of which of these categories are OP and which are underpowered. For example on how you'd do this:

 

 

Thanks! I'm awaiting your feedback, which I'm hoping will be mostly positive and not the usual "this is a terrible suggestion, you're destroying the game" cynicism 

 

 

I hate to say it, but its a good idea

[elsuper]

if it doesn't go over the cap, it's pretty pointless for a highest tier improvement. 

 

Fair point too.

[Tenshibo]

 

 

That means that you start with the first perk in the category to unlock the next perk, etc.

 

Just to clarify, if/when launched, will we automatically start with the level 1 perk for each category, and then can build our perk tree from there, or will we have to buy the first perk in the category?

[Phiney]

Just to clarify, if/when launched, will we automatically start with the level 1 perk for each category, and then can build our perk tree from there, or will we have to buy the first perk in the category?

 

Sounds to me like 8/20, so you start with nothing, but sheepy can clarify.

 

btw, sheepy, big fan of allowing all 8 immediately, instead of giving more slots as you grow. Good shout. 

[Buorhann]

For a Military build -  I'd go with Units cost 10% less, Upkeep -25%, Recruit 25% more per day on the Military Perks.

 

5% Combat Value, 1 extra MAP per War on the War Perks.

 

Build a New City/Project every 9 days, 1 Free Improvement Slot per City in the Development Perks.

 

And the 8th perk could float around.

 

My line of thinking is that unless you're a 24/7 raider on farms/inactives, then the extra Offensive War slot would be near worthless.  The 20% extra loot will also be very limited, considering you could potentially just not get anything at all ( Or very little to make any use of the increased percentage ).

 

The extra Spy per day I'd assume will be for higher scoring tier nations.  Not a terrible perk, but not one I'd go "OMG MUST HAVE".

[Vanek26]

Does it work from top down? I havnt thought tons about it, will post again once I have, but initially (if its top down) the best war perk doesnt seem like actually the best. you rarely fill all your aggressive slots. 

 

 

 

 

 

It seems to me a far better top perk would be limiting your defensive war slots to 2 rather than 3. 

[Dolphman]

I like this. Do the thing sheepy.

[elsuper]

I feel like I should add, I like the overall idea and structure of it, and the use of resources to switch. But commerce seems OP to me, especially in light of Phiney's math.

[Ashland]

So there's two potential choices for me:

 

If the 10% commerce boost can exceed the 100% maximum (which I think is what it does) then I would max out Commerce, take the first three from Development, and the first one from Trade because with it I would actually refocus towards food production, given how much better it makes it.  It might even induce me to get the food project.

 

So:

 

1% population boost

Commerce improvement Upkeep -20%

Commerce Improvement Cost -25%

10% Commerce Boost

10% more food

20% Land discount

City/Project rush

Infrastructure 5% discount

 

If it doesn't work that way I would go with all of Development, the first two from Commerce, then either the first one from trade and the last one from Development or the first two from War depending on how antsy I was.

Edited February 17, 2015 by Ashland

[Buorhann]

Now that I think about it, the extra Offensive Slot AND the +1 MAP per War would be a very broken perk combination.

[Ashland]

Now that I think about it, the extra Offensive Slot AND the +1 MAP per War would be a very broken perk combination.

You think?  I mean, I'm notoriously ignorant of war, but I was under the impression that enemy defensive slots were the limiting factor in a war.  Not your own offensive slots.

[Malice]

These are large boosts for having no drawback.

[Buorhann]

You think?  I mean, I'm notoriously ignorant of war, but I was under the impression that enemy defensive slots were the limiting factor in a war.  Not your own offensive slots.

 

 

I look at it as meaning you get +1 MAP for every war you're in.  So if you open up 3 fronts, that's +3 to your starting MAP ( Instead of 6, you'll start with 9 ).

 

Just by having one war opened, you'll start with 7 - and that's before declaring war ahead of a ending day tick.

 

Granted the +1 Offensive Slot will only help if you open up all your Offensive Slots to get as much of a +1 MAP per War bonus as possible.  Dedicated Raiders will have a field day with this combo, if I speculate it correctly.