No shade (but some legit questions from a mere pleb)

[Kastor]

1 hour ago, Partisan said:

What the hell are you talking about. Tier definition has absolutely nothing to do with tier disparity among alliances. Shut the frick up kastor. I know more about tiering than you do.

I’m saying that there’s not enough 20+ throughout the game to say that 20 isn’t whale tier. When about half or majority are in 6-7 alliances, mostly elite alliances, it’s hard to say that 20 isn’t whale tier.

[Prefonteen]

Just now, Kastor said:

I’m saying that there’s not enough 20+ throughout the game to say that 20 isn’t whale tier. When about half or majority are in 6-7 alliances, mostly elite alliances, it’s hard to say that 20 isn’t whale tier.

whats the percentage of nations in the game above 20 cities?

 

Where those nations are located is irrelevant.

[Shadow]

Here is the number of nations at each city and what percentage of total nations they are for those interested:

 

Total Nations: 7014

1: 2420 (34.50%)
2: 1344 (19.16%)
3: 439 (6.26%)
4: 252 (3.59%)
5: 342 (4.88%)
6: 203 (2.89%)
7: 149 (2.12%)
8: 118 (1.68%)
9: 118 (1.68%)
10: 136 (1.94%)
11: 126 (1.80%)
12: 160 (2.28%)
13: 127 (1.81%)
14: 263 (3.75%)
15: 111 (1.58%)
16: 116 (1.65%)
17: 83 (1.18%)
18: 84 (1.20%)
19: 80 (1.14%)
20: 83 (1.18%)
21: 65 (0.93%)
22: 48 (0.68%)
23: 36 (0.51%)
24: 20 (0.29%)
25: 30 (0.43%)
26: 16 (0.23%)
27: 12 (0.17%)
28: 10 (0.14%)
29: 7 (0.10%)
30: 9 (0.13%)
31: 4 (0.06%)
32: 3 (0.04%)

Thus those with 20+ nations make up around 4.89% of the game.

Edited February 14, 2018 by Shadow

[Buorhann]

2 minutes ago, Shadow said:

Here is the number of nations at each city and what percentage of total nations they are for those interested:

  Hide contents

Total Nations: 7014

1: 2420 (34.50%)
2: 1344 (19.16%)
3: 439 (6.26%)
4: 252 (3.59%)
5: 342 (4.88%)
6: 203 (2.89%)
7: 149 (2.12%)
8: 118 (1.68%)
9: 118 (1.68%)
10: 136 (1.94%)
11: 126 (1.80%)
12: 160 (2.28%)
13: 127 (1.81%)
14: 263 (3.75%)
15: 111 (1.58%)
16: 116 (1.65%)
17: 83 (1.18%)
18: 84 (1.20%)
19: 80 (1.14%)
20: 83 (1.18%)
21: 65 (0.93%)
22: 48 (0.68%)
23: 36 (0.51%)
24: 20 (0.29%)
25: 30 (0.43%)
26: 16 (0.23%)
27: 12 (0.17%)
28: 10 (0.14%)
29: 7 (0.10%)
30: 9 (0.13%)
31: 4 (0.06%)
32: 3 (0.04%)

Thus those with 20+ nations make up around 4.89% of the game.

Are you able to trim that data down to active nations?  The 1/2 city inactive nations hinder an accurate percentage.

[Shadow]

22 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

Are you able to trim that data down to active nations?  The 1/2 city inactive nations hinder an accurate percentage.

Here are only those who have been active within the last week and are not in vacation mode:

That brings it up to 9.93% active nations at 20 or above.

 

Total Nations: 3346
1: 467 (13.96%)
2: 390 (11.66%)
3: 183 (5.47%)
4: 140 (4.18%)
5: 223 (6.66%)
6: 133 (3.97%)
7: 117 (3.50%)
8: 98 (2.93%)
9: 101 (3.02%)
10: 117 (3.50%)
11: 106 (3.17%)
12: 143 (4.27%)
13: 115 (3.44%)
14: 245 (7.32%)
15: 102 (3.05%)
16: 107 (3.20%)
17: 73 (2.18%)
18: 77 (2.30%)
19: 77 (2.30%)
20: 81 (2.42%)
21: 61 (1.82%)
22: 45 (1.34%)
23: 36 (1.08%)
24: 20 (0.60%)
25: 29 (0.87%)
26: 16 (0.48%)
27: 12 (0.36%)
28: 9 (0.27%)
29: 7 (0.21%)
30: 9 (0.27%)
31: 4 (0.12%)
32: 3 (0.09%)

Edited February 14, 2018 by Shadow

[Buorhann]

Thanks, that's more like it.  I find it interesting how many dead starting nations there are.

[Shadow]

Got a request on discord for the same but excluding cities 1-4 entirely so here is also that:

That brings 20+ to being 15.33% of all active nations greater than 5 cities.

Total Nations: 2166

5: 223 (10.30%)
6: 133 (6.14%)
7: 117 (5.40%)
8: 98 (4.52%)
9: 101 (4.66%)
10: 117 (5.40%)
11: 106 (4.89%)
12: 143 (6.60%)
13: 115 (5.31%)
14: 245 (11.31%)
15: 102 (4.71%)
16: 107 (4.94%)
17: 73 (3.37%)
18: 77 (3.55%)
19: 77 (3.55%)
20: 81 (3.74%)
21: 61 (2.82%)
22: 45 (2.08%)
23: 36 (1.66%)
24: 20 (0.92%)
25: 29 (1.34%)
26: 16 (0.74%)
27: 12 (0.55%)
28: 9 (0.42%)
29: 7 (0.32%)
30: 9 (0.42%)
31: 4 (0.18%)
32: 3 (0.14%)

 

[Holton]

5 hours ago, Shadow said:

Got a request on discord for the same but excluding cities 1-4 entirely so here is also that:

That brings 20+ to being 15.33% of all active nations greater than 5 cities.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Total Nations: 2166

5: 223 (10.30%)
6: 133 (6.14%)
7: 117 (5.40%)
8: 98 (4.52%)
9: 101 (4.66%)
10: 117 (5.40%)
11: 106 (4.89%)
12: 143 (6.60%)
13: 115 (5.31%)
14: 245 (11.31%)
15: 102 (4.71%)
16: 107 (4.94%)
17: 73 (3.37%)
18: 77 (3.55%)
19: 77 (3.55%)
20: 81 (3.74%)
21: 61 (2.82%)
22: 45 (2.08%)
23: 36 (1.66%)
24: 20 (0.92%)
25: 29 (1.34%)
26: 16 (0.74%)
27: 12 (0.55%)
28: 9 (0.42%)
29: 7 (0.32%)
30: 9 (0.42%)
31: 4 (0.18%)
32: 3 (0.14%)

 

 

top 15% of the game is 20+ cities.

 

Ironically maybe like 30% of the game (within those same parameters) is socially active so we probably don't notice how high most of us are. Plus the fact that like 70% the mid/low tier is gag-ordered in IQ right now.

[Starbuck]

All this tells me is that the top 10% of the game owns half or more of all wealth in Orbis

#OccupyWhaleTier

[Daniel Storm]

On 2/13/2018 at 10:14 PM, Holton said:

top 15% of the game is 20+ cities.

 

Ironically maybe like 30% of the game (within those same parameters) is socially active so we probably don't notice how high most of us are. Plus the fact that like 70% the mid/low tier is gag-ordered in IQ right now.

We can talk, you're all just not that interesting to talk to.

[Critters]

20 minutes ago, Dad said:

We can talk, you're all just not that interesting to talk to.

 

Hmmmmmm.....sounds scripted.

[Daniel Storm]

1 hour ago, Critters said:

 

Hmmmmmm.....sounds scripted.

Case meet point.

[Sketchy]

On 2/14/2018 at 7:34 AM, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

If you guys insist on this stupid whale tier crap... you are crazy if you think a 20 city nation is considered a whale... especially now that we have nations out there with 32 cities.  If some rando 20 city nation tried to apply to grumpy, I would laugh at him.

The 32 city nations are outliers. When people use phrases like upper/mid/lower tier they are usually referring to war ranges. In the context, factoring in a 32 city nation into a conversation about war is asinine. If the terms are supposed to have any utility at all in conversation than they would be based on the city ranges where the vast majority of war happens, in this case that would be around 1-22 cities. While some nations have grown high, the actual ranges of where the vast majority of players inhabit have only moved by  around 3-4 cities since Silent War, which was in September of 2016.

The actual ranges look more like:

Lower Tier: 1-10

Mid Tier: 11-16

Upper Tier: 17-22

Whale/Super Tier : 23+ cities

People above 26 cities are basically irrelevant in 95% of war scenarios.

Hell you said it yourself once, you build out of range of war on purpose. So presumably you know how they work.

 

On 2/14/2018 at 9:00 AM, Kastor said:

It is when a small majority harness the 20+ city count and majority are in specific alliances. I’m sure between Grumpy, DS, Hogwarts/Whatever, Nuke Bloc, Rose, and CoS there are more 20+ nations than the rest of the game combined. If not more, very close to.

 

Where the tiers are distributed is irrelevant. You could use that logic to make the argument in favour of SRD's point since the vast majority of people in his range are in his alliance.

[Buorhann]

And that is why I stayed at 16 cities for over a year.  Gotta be ready for to do some slaying~

[Big Brother]

Personally, the criteria I've used to judge whether or not someone is a whale isn't their city count, it's their infrastructure. If you have 3000+ infrastructure in all of your cities, it doesn't matter to me if you have 12, 15, 20 or 25+ of them, you're a whale. I guess I think of infrastructure as a representation of a nation's weight while city count represents a nation's height. So, if your nation has an unproportionately high weight (amount of infra) compared to your nation's height (city count), you're basically a whale. I just don't see a big nation as automatically being a whale unless it's bloated with expensive and unnecessary infrastructure. Maybe this is a misconception on my part and I'm not claiming that my way of seeing things is any more or less correct than anyone else's, I'm just trying to describe what I've usually thought about whales.

[Holton]

15 hours ago, Dad said:

We can talk, you're all just not that interesting to talk to.

We're just now seeing people respond after a week of fighting.

 

Now what do we see? Not even an official acknowledgement but, I will assume, leadership letting a few well-spoken members off the leash to "prove" no one is gagged.

[Ripper]

10 minutes ago, Holton said:

We're just now seeing people respond after a week of fighting. Now what do we see? Not even an official acknowledgement but, I will assume, leadership letting a few well-spoken members off the leash to "prove" no one is gagged.

I mean, not recognizing a war is a valid tactic. You cannot lose a war if it doesn't exist.

The only problem is that Acadia and OWR have already recognized hostilities. So, either IQ is at war or some of its members just don't defend their allies. The official stance towards the conflict is full of holes.

[Shadowthrone]

1 hour ago, Holton said:

We're just now seeing people respond after a week of fighting.

 

Now what do we see? Not even an official acknowledgement but, I will assume, leadership letting a few well-spoken members off the leash to "prove" no one is gagged.

We just choose to not engage on the OWF for the most bit  

[Buorhann]

4 minutes ago, Shadowthrone said:

We just choose to not engage on the OWF for the most bit  

Should we make propaganda/shitposts for IQ then?  Seems like you don't have anyone.

Well maybe Auctor if he wakes up.

[Dr Rush]

51 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

Should we make propaganda/shitposts for IQ then?  Seems like you don't have anyone.

Well maybe Auctor if he wakes up.

Already got that scheduled in my itinerary

[Starbuck]

Seems to me BK is employing the TKR method of discouraging OWF involvement from members for PR reasons.

Which is sad. We all see where TKR is heading. Constantly trying to sign treaties their membership despises, KT, NPO. Not sure why you want to emulate that.

Hating your members so much you gag them. Wouldn't be surprised if they're crying out for you to leave IQ

[Buorhann]

A shame really.  All we're doing is shitposting.  PR hits only really happen when a gov member says something absolutely stupid, but other than that - who gives a damn about shitposting?

[Dr Rush]

Just now, Buorhann said:

A shame really.  All we're doing is shitposting.  PR hits only really happen when a gov member says something absolutely stupid, but other than that - who gives a damn about shitposting?

Gonna disagree with the hippo here. A gag order whether its real or imagined, is a massive PR hit by default. Its effectively saying they are unable to properly answer criticism, and further means they have left their public image wholly at the mercy of their enemies. 

[Anneal]

9 hours ago, Big Brother said:

Personally, the criteria I've used to judge whether or not someone is a whale isn't their city count, it's their infrastructure. If you have 3000+ infrastructure in all of your cities, it doesn't matter to me if you have 12, 15, 20 or 25+ of them, you're a whale. I guess I think of infrastructure as a representation of a nation's weight while city count represents a nation's height. So, if your nation has an unproportionately high weight (amount of infra) compared to your nation's height (city count), you're basically a whale. I just don't see a big nation as automatically being a whale unless it's bloated with expensive and unnecessary infrastructure. Maybe this is a misconception on my part and I'm not claiming that my way of seeing things is any more or less correct than anyone else's, I'm just trying to describe what I've usually thought about whales.

Or it could be a mix of both. “Whales” are not very clearly defined in this game, and I see it as more of an idea – are you actually buying infra and city count to inflate your score and evade war? If so, then you’re a whale. Neither getting lots of cities nor getting a bunch of infra per city make you a whale automatically. Bluebear is on 23 cities and hardly anyone considers him a whale, and most people at JEst may have plenty of cities but are pretty willing to eat several nukes and burn some pixels. 

Edited February 16, 2018 by Anneal
Proofreading

[Buorhann]

Gag orders aren't really that huge of a deal, because they don't hinder relations with other alliances they may be treatied.

Most current alliances have strongly built communities as well.  So it's not a huge shakeup there either.

However, your points do hold merit.