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Europe and East Asia or Central & South America and Africa?


Rozalia
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Would you rather receive immigrants from?  

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  1. 1. Would you rather receive immigrants from?

    • Europe and East Asia
    • Central & South America and Africa


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I voted Central America, South America, and Africa and I'll explain why (admittedly anecdotal evidence).

I live, and have lived, in areas that are full of immigrants from all continents (even penguins at our zoo) so I'm going ENTIRELY from my experience here. I'd also begin by mentioning I welcome all immigrants as long as they contribute to our society, a society of immigrants.

 

Immigrants from developing nations tend to be people seeking a better life. They've worked hard, burnt the candle at both ends, and many of them start small businesses. They came here out of ambition.

 

Immigrants from Europe tend to already have money, are typically conservative (many of which disagree with the more left ideas of their home countries, instead of fighting for their homes they abandoned ship and took the easy way out), and they seek to exploit the institutions the United States has in place. Better schools, better medical care, better universities, open areas of land, etc.

 

I guess the (anecdotal) evidence I've seen is that the Africans and Central/South Americans are driven by a desire for a better life, and the Europeans are driven by a desire to preserve their already-decent life. Neither of which is necessarily a bad goal, but you can see how the ambition of one can benefit society while the other can drain from it.

 

I will say that (anecdotally) the Asian immigrants I've met have also been poor people, moved here for a chance at better, and work their asses off. So I don't think they should be put in the same boat as Europeans.

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12 minutes ago, Holton said:

I voted Central America, South America, and Africa and I'll explain why (admittedly anecdotal evidence).

I live, and have lived, in areas that are full of immigrants from all continents (even penguins at our zoo) so I'm going ENTIRELY from my experience here. I'd also begin by mentioning I welcome all immigrants as long as they contribute to our society, a society of immigrants.

 

Immigrants from developing nations tend to be people seeking a better life. They've worked hard, burnt the candle at both ends, and many of them start small businesses. They came here out of ambition.

 

Immigrants from Europe tend to already have money, are typically conservative (many of which disagree with the more left ideas of their home countries, instead of fighting for their homes they abandoned ship and took the easy way out), and they seek to exploit the institutions the United States has in place. Better schools, better medical care, better universities, open areas of land, etc.

 

I guess the (anecdotal) evidence I've seen is that the Africans and Central/South Americans are driven by a desire for a better life, and the Europeans are driven by a desire to preserve their already-decent life. Neither of which is necessarily a bad goal, but you can see how the ambition of one can benefit society while the other can drain from it.

 

I will say that (anecdotally) the Asian immigrants I've met have also been poor people, moved here for a chance at better, and work their asses off. So I don't think they should be put in the same boat as Europeans.

All sounds very heartwarming but... you are aware how many of those guys are criminals right? Just look at the likes of Sweden and other places who have brought in a pop that is poor, low educated, and have a bad culture. Of course the best from those places should be welcomed but that is not the nature of this thread, this is an all or nothing sort of deal. You don't get to single out the good from the bad here. 

Edit: Also. Immigrants from those areas are proven +s, not so much from the other areas. Though the level of value lost via crime and the like is not quite quantifiable I'll grant. 

Edited by Rozalia
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Just now, Rozalia said:

All sounds very heartwarming but... you are aware how many of those guys are criminals right? Just look at the likes of Sweden and other places who have brought in a pop that is poor, low educated, and have a bad culture. Of course the best from those places should be welcomed but that is not the nature of this thread, this is an all or nothing sort of deal. You don't get to single out the good from the bad here. 

Well it depends on what you mean by criminal. We live in an imperfect legal system that has long separated from morally right or wrong and ventured into considerations of things like profits or appearance. In my mind, I feel like this fact makes things a lot more grey than I want them to be. Do I think someone following the laws of the land, whose parents brought them here as a child, should be labeled "criminal"? No. It makes no sense, and it's not within the realm of morally right.

The balancing act we have to strike is the difference between maintaining order and upholding what is morally right. Unfortunately, a full authoritarian swing in the direction of maintaining order doesn't strike me as "right". Things like immigrants wanting a better life and coming to the United States do strike me as "right" or at least "ok." However we also can't just open the floodgates and leave the borders alone. So we have to find a middle-ground.

We need immigration services. We need protected and controlled borders. We do not need travel bans, we do not need to restrict immigration from a particular region based on anything less than concrete fact. We need to deport the people committing crimes in the United States that aren't citizens, but we need to give them a trial first.

 

It all seems fairly common sense to me.

 

I don't want to pay for an immigrant to sit in a US prison... but guess who does? The people making money from running that prison.

I don't want to drop billions on a border wall when statistically significant numbers of people come by plane, boat, tunnel, or even from Canada... but guess who does? The people who will get paid to build that wall.

 

I just want common sense to be brought back to this great nation.

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8 hours ago, Rozalia said:

People are free to think stupid things if they wish. I have been playing nation sims for 11 years so I'm quite the stable genius if I started at 3 years of age. As for the racism thing, again, they are free to try and make that stick but everyone who has tried has failed. 

For someone who claims such a vast degree of experience in nation sims, you sure suck at keeping an alliance together. How many wars have you lost in just the past 6 months? 2? 3? It's rather humiliating to claim being so experienced while being so bad at what you do. Ur still pretty dumb as a 14-year-old. 

 

Write me another paragraph. Cry me another river. 

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It's a useful mental exercise. Through the years, many thinkers have been fascinated by it. But I don't enjoy playing. It was a game that was born during a brutal age when life counted for little. Everyone believed that some people were worth more than others. Kings. Pawns. I don't think that anyone is worth more than anyone else. Chess is just a game. Real people are not pieces. You can't assign more value to some of them and not others. Not to me. Not to anyone. People are not a thing that you can sacrifice. The lesson is, if anyone who looks on to the world as if it was a game of chess, deserves to lose.

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11 hours ago, Caecus said:

 

Also, @ComradeMilton, I'm going to miss not seeing you get your dick caught in doors anymore. I find it amusing that you think you actually have anything intelligent to add to a debate, and that says something when I think Roz is ever-so slightly better than you. Enjoy getting ignored by the rest of society for being a lazy, stupid piece of shit. It's rather ironic that of all the racist stupidass trolls here, I still reserved the vast majority of my ire for you. That's funny. It's not really an important consideration of mine. You have ways of avoiding my posts should you choose to do so. No need to suffer the bad readin'.

 

Finally, Roz, I think this last post that you never replied to sums you up. You should pay attention to the last paragraph if you ever want to get laid. It's ironic that for someone who talks so much about 'integration,' your own lack of character and decency has forced you to be shunned from the rest of society, confining yourself to your safe space here. I suppose after I leave, it really will be a safe space for you. God knows Milton is too damn stupid and lazy to give you an actual debate.  I don't believe we've actually had a debate in this subforum, but I'm fine with and how I post. If you don't like it, again, plenty of options to remove you even seeing my posts :)

 

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People from Central and South America, and Africa are some of the nicest and most culturally diverse people I know. In fact, they tend to be the type of people who are more focused on the welfare of their family and neighbors. Roz likes to talk like an American but in reality knows nothing about the state of immigation in America or what these groups of people are like. How about you stick to UK politics instead of pretending you're Trump's mini-me.

Roz believes these places are shithole countries, which he admitted in the KT server. They are undesirables to him. And why? Because Trump said it and Roz can't seem to separate Trump's opinions from his owns.

Edited by Starbuck
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3 hours ago, Starbuck said:

People from Central and South America, and Africa are some of the nicest and most culturally diverse people I know. In fact, they tend to be the type of people who are more focused on the welfare of their family and neighbors. Roz likes to talk like an American but in reality knows nothing about the state of immigation in America or what these groups of people are like. How about you stick to UK politics instead of pretending you're Trump's mini-me.

Roz believes these places are shithole countries, which he admitted in the KT server. They are undesirables to him. And why? Because Trump said it and Roz can't seem to separate Trump's opinions from his owns.

 

2 hours ago, Starbuck said:

Also can we please talk about how Roz conveniently chose Hispanics and Black people to be the groups more likely to be criminals, and white people and Chinese/Japanese people as the good guys?

Oh boy, taking a crack I see. First lets address the calling me racist bit, even if you don't outright say it. The options are as they are because of how the Democrat meme of Trump goes, where Europe and East Asia are put on one side, and central/south America and Africa on the other.

Second. There are good immigrants from all those places certainly, but we're talking averages here. 

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1 hour ago, Rozalia said:

 

Oh boy, taking a crack I see. First lets address the calling me racist bit, even if you don't outright say it. The options are as they are because of how the Democrat meme of Trump goes, where Europe and East Asia are put on one side, and central/south America and Africa on the other.

Second. There are good immigrants from all those places certainly, but we're talking averages here. 

Ok so what are the averages?

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Oh boy, more attempts to refer to me as a racist. Then again this is a character who thinks I'm a white supremacist/Nazi for being for Chinese immigration so what the hell.

For those unaware me and ol' Starbuck had a little contest on KT's discord. Krieg sums it up nicely.

Quote

@Rozalia obviously won that one.  I'd describe it as the victory of a brand of brutally rational utilitarianism over @Starbuck's progressivist evasion, intellectual dishonesty, and desperate attempts not to acknowledge known and proveable facts which are documented by many statistics.  Some very childish twisting and turning like a caught eel cost him a great deal of credibility.  Plus some ridiculous personal insults.  When pushed hard enough, Starbuck resorted to typical millenial progressive behavior, which is embarassing for everyone to watch.
Idealogy>rational thought=terrible results

Starbuck and his ilk is too PC to be honest. 

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6 hours ago, Starbuck said:

Yeah I'm fairly confident Roz is racist ?

Good to see you have graduated from implications. Yet you won't be able to provide a single shred of proof of this racism, and I'd ask you to, but I am aware you recently found out about the term "loaded question" so you're very into shouting that out in response to any questions. 

Folks. This is a soy boy who calls me a Nazi when I'm promoting immigration of East Asian and Jewish people. He has no credibility, no evidence, and has shown himself as dishonest as even when the evidence proving him incorrect is all laid out on the table, he refuses to change as alas, he hates the Roz so much that he cannot bear to admit the Roz is correct.

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7 hours ago, Starbuck said:

Yeah I'm fairly confident Roz is racist ?

If only you had the intelligence needed, you could ride in on your white horse, with your shining white armor, and crush these evil bigoted racists with cold hard facts and evidence straight from your superior brain, forcing them to question their entire value system, probably solving world hunger and curing cancer too. Then you could stand above us all, soaking in the praises of your unlimited virtue.

But alas, lacking the required mental capacity for such an endeavor, you can do nothing but retreat into the typical progressive intellectual argument, "Omgurd racism omgurd".

Truly the hero no one needed nor deserved.

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It's not racism when the culture in those nations promotes (both directly and indirectly) criminal acts.

This could range anywhere from poverty forcing people into extreme measures to governments forcing people to act irrationally.  The longer it goes on, the more ingrained does it become part of their culture.

This is why you're starting to see riots in most of those areas (well, those that aren't pinned down by military), and also why you see individuals suffer from major culture shock when they visit a western nation.

They're not use to our laws and order, and it's unfortunate that it happens to such a large group that people often scream racism when facts are presented to argue the point.

Yes, we're all human.  Yes, it's possible for any human to bred and bleed along with another.  But the upbringing and cultural issues makes us different.

Sidenote, before there's a knee jerk statement:  This doesn't pertain to everyone, but it does pertain to a majority.

Hell, just go visit Russia or Middle East yourself - you'll definitely see/experience  the other side regardless of your skin color.  And of course you'll nice people too.  Just like how immigrants to a western nation would experience.

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5 hours ago, Rozalia said:

Good to see you have graduated from implications. Yet you won't be able to provide a single shred of proof of this racism, and I'd ask you to, but I am aware you recently found out about the term "loaded question" so you're very into shouting that out in response to any questions. 

Folks. This is a soy boy who calls me a Nazi when I'm promoting immigration of East Asian and Jewish people. He has no credibility, no evidence, and has shown himself as dishonest as even when the evidence proving him incorrect is all laid out on the table, he refuses to change as alas, he hates the Roz so much that he cannot bear to admit the Roz is correct.

Asking for proof of your racism wouldn't even be a loaded question so it seems you aren't quite confident in the term yourself. I suggest you do a simple Google search. You ask questions with hidden intentions and built in presuppositions. You admitted doing this on the KT server. Look it up. I doubt you have enough self awareness though to understand when you do it and why it's bad. 

Anyway, the proof is in the pudding. You're not just a racist, but you also only speak of women as sexual objects. You're a coward that hides his true intentions behind useless and irrelevant questions like the one in this thread, often with no real base in reality. You pretend to already know all the answers when the reality is that you are clueless and biased. The mods are right to constantly close your threads. At least they are aware enough to see that your motives are often malicious and that you have absolutely 0 interest in any kind of discussion. I don't need to be a progressive to see your racism loud and clear. Your actions and motives speak loud enough.

As for anyone in this thread, don't even bother discussing this topic with Roz. He already thinks the only possible answer, the one with ALL the facts and evidence in the world on it's side, is East Asians and Europeans. To him, there is 0 reason to choose Central/South America and Africa. He admitted it himself.

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2 hours ago, Starbuck said:

Asking for proof of your racism wouldn't even be a loaded question so it seems you aren't quite confident in the term yourself. I suggest you do a simple Google search. You ask questions with hidden intentions and built in presuppositions. You admitted doing this on the KT server. Look it up. I doubt you have enough self awareness though to understand when you do it and why it's bad. 

Anyway, the proof is in the pudding. You're not just a racist, but you also only speak of women as sexual objects. You're a coward that hides his true intentions behind useless and irrelevant questions like the one in this thread, often with no real base in reality. You pretend to already know all the answers when the reality is that you are clueless and biased. The mods are right to constantly close your threads. At least they are aware enough to see that your motives are often malicious and that you have absolutely 0 interest in any kind of discussion. I don't need to be a progressive to see your racism loud and clear. Your actions and motives speak loud enough.

As for anyone in this thread, don't even bother discussing this topic with Roz. He already thinks the only possible answer, the one with ALL the facts and evidence in the world on it's side, is East Asians and Europeans. To him, there is 0 reason to choose Central/South America and Africa. He admitted it himself.

I know what the term means and how it is perfectly legitimate to ask to make a point. It either makes you honest, or shows your cowardice in regards to the Discord thing. You decided to be cowardly instead of honest, what a shocker. Typical progressive. 

Prove of these accusations = zero. I love this by the way. Accuses me of being racist and hating Muslims and all the rest. For me to tell him one thing I like about Muslim culture. I respond that I like how their women dress and the Hijab is also a nice sexual garment. His first response is to say I need to get laid, which I reply that I do need to get laid by more Muslim women yes. Then he calls me a sexist. As for the sexual object thing... not a shocker a puritan progressive priest would say such things. Just being willing to talk about such matters to start with puts me down as a degenerate monster to you. This from a homosexual, who I'd think would know better then to try to shame people with accusations of simply being perverts. 

All the facts point to them being best yes. You're just mad that I made you face up to that fact and that when you, being a progressive, try to argue for the other side because "those poor brown and black people", you discredit yourself by looking like the complete fool you are as none of the facts are on your side. 

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1 hour ago, Rozalia said:

I know what the term means and how it is perfectly legitimate to ask to make a point. It either makes you honest, or shows your cowardice in regards to the Discord thing. You decided to be cowardly instead of honest, what a shocker. Typical progressive. 

Prove of these accusations = zero. I love this by the way. Accuses me of being racist and hating Muslims and all the rest. For me to tell him one thing I like about Muslim culture. I respond that I like how their women dress and the Hijab is also a nice sexual garment. His first response is to say I need to get laid, which I reply that I do need to get laid by more Muslim women yes. Then he calls me a sexist. As for the sexual object thing... not a shocker a puritan progressive priest would say such things. Just being willing to talk about such matters to start with puts me down as a degenerate monster to you. This from a homosexual, who I'd think would know better then to try to shame people with accusations of simply being perverts. 

All the facts point to them being best yes. You're just mad that I made you face up to that fact and that when you, being a progressive, try to argue for the other side because "those poor brown and black people", you discredit yourself by looking like the complete fool you are as none of the facts are on your side. 

Yes please keep going. Continue to bring my sexual orientation into every conversation you can muster. It's not going to help your credibility to imply homosexuals are perverts. You just continue to prove the point that hatred runs deep into your heart. This thread was bait as you said, a way to bring your hatred for progressives to light. It's pitiful.

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2 hours ago, Rozalia said:

Prove of these accusations = zero. I love this by the way. Accuses me of being racist and hating Muslims and all the rest. 

Literally everything in this thread is proof. Having preconceived ideas and opinions about a person by where they are from in the world, and then acting upon it is called racism. You think that just by virtue of being from Somalia and nothing else, people from that "shithole country" are criminals and can't "assimilate" into your country. It never even occurred to you that some people from Somalia might be scholars, philanthropists, and skilled workers who love eating cheeseburgers and playing American football.

Furthermore, you think that people from a socialist, gun-banning Scandinavian country with both a symbolic monarchy from the days where people were either noble or peasant and a state-sponsored baptist church is more suited to immigrate to the United States, presumably because nobody gets more white than Norwegians. Because in no !@#$ing WAY would anyone think that white-ass Norwegians would be more likely to assimilate to American culture unless they were thinking about how white their skin is. 

You can't see proof of these accusations because you obviously don't know what racism is. Thus, the suggestion to go look it up in the dictionary. 

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It's a useful mental exercise. Through the years, many thinkers have been fascinated by it. But I don't enjoy playing. It was a game that was born during a brutal age when life counted for little. Everyone believed that some people were worth more than others. Kings. Pawns. I don't think that anyone is worth more than anyone else. Chess is just a game. Real people are not pieces. You can't assign more value to some of them and not others. Not to me. Not to anyone. People are not a thing that you can sacrifice. The lesson is, if anyone who looks on to the world as if it was a game of chess, deserves to lose.

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52 minutes ago, Starbuck said:

Yes please keep going. Continue to bring my sexual orientation into every conversation you can muster. It's not going to help your credibility to imply homosexuals are perverts. You just continue to prove the point that hatred runs deep into your heart. This thread was bait as you said, a way to bring your hatred for progressives to light. It's pitiful.

Nope. What I said is being from a group which has had to suffer such accusations in the past you'd know better to fling them at others. Unlike you I don't discriminate based on what adults do in the bedroom. 

41 minutes ago, Caecus said:

Literally everything in this thread is proof. Having preconceived ideas and opinions about a person by where they are from in the world, and then acting upon it is called racism. You think that just by virtue of being from Somalia and nothing else, people from that "shithole country" are criminals and can't "assimilate" into your country. It never even occurred to you that some people from Somalia might be scholars, philanthropists, and skilled workers who love eating cheeseburgers and playing American football.

Furthermore, you think that people from a socialist, gun-banning Scandinavian country with both a symbolic monarchy from the days where people were either noble or peasant and a state-sponsored baptist church is more suited to immigrate to the United States, presumably because nobody gets more white than Norwegians. Because in no !@#$ing WAY would anyone think that white-ass Norwegians would be more likely to assimilate to American culture unless they were thinking about how white their skin is. 

You can't see proof of these accusations because you obviously don't know what racism is. Thus, the suggestion to go look it up in the dictionary. 

Why is a loser posting past January 20th? You going to disgrace and humiliate yourself further by not sticking by your word? As for your trifle, this deals in the average immigrant so your point is worthless as the other two areas have them in a much greater number. 

A discussion on this subject is not racism. If you feel it's racism because the answer is so obvious then sorry bucko, but that simply means one answer is better than the other. Not because of the races involved, but simply because for a myriad of reasons those places are as the Democrat meme goes, shitholes. 

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59 minutes ago, Rozalia said:

Nope. What I said is being from a group which has had to suffer such accusations in the past you'd know better to fling them at others. Unlike you I don't discriminate based on what adults do in the bedroom. 

Why is a loser posting past January 20th? You going to disgrace and humiliate yourself further by not sticking by your word? As for your trifle, this deals in the average immigrant so your point is worthless as the other two areas have them in a much greater number. 

A discussion on this subject is not racism. If you feel it's racism because the answer is so obvious then sorry bucko, but that simply means one answer is better than the other. Not because of the races involved, but simply because for a myriad of reasons those places are as the Democrat meme goes, shitholes. 

My "group" has not been accused of speaking of and seeing women as objects so your point is absolutely irrelevant. You clearly and blatantly only speak of  women as sexual objects. I had asked you  name one thing about Muslims you like and you go straight for how their women dress and claim the hijab is a sexual garment. You have no respect for women and it's just so painfully obvious in everything you say. It's pathetic that you would take someone's personal information and try to use it against them to try to prove some point. If you can't come up with anything other than attacking people personally and implying homosexuals are perverts, you've already lost the argument.

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15 hours ago, Starbuck said:

My "group" has not been accused of speaking of and seeing women as objects so your point is absolutely irrelevant. You clearly and blatantly only speak of  women as sexual objects. I had asked you  name one thing about Muslims you like and you go straight for how their women dress and claim the hijab is a sexual garment. You have no respect for women and it's just so painfully obvious in everything you say. It's pathetic that you would take someone's personal information and try to use it against them to try to prove some point. If you can't come up with anything other than attacking people personally and implying homosexuals are perverts, you've already lost the argument.

But it has been accused of being a group of sex hungry degenerates who want the arses of men, and also of being paedophiles who just want to rape kids. I don't agree with such things of course as I'm perfectly good with what adults want to do with each other sexually, but yes, it is worth mentioning when you as a gay man try to shame others in a way that others have in the past shamed your own group. I'd say you having to resort to this dishonest shows you already lost, but you have long since lost so it's just another for the pile.

And what is wrong with finding it attractive? You're just pissed I actually don't discriminate so you can't say I'm being racist, so you shout sexist instead. You're a predictable joke. 

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On 1/31/2018 at 10:30 AM, Rozalia said:

But it has been accused of being a group of sex hungry degenerates who want the arses of men, and also of being paedophiles who just want to rape kids. I don't agree with such things of course as I'm perfectly good with what adults want to do with each other sexually, but yes, it is worth mentioning when you as a gay man try to shame others in a way that others have in the past shamed your own group. I'd say you having to resort to this dishonest shows you already lost, but you have long since lost so it's just another for the pile.

And what is wrong with finding it attractive? You're just pissed I actually don't discriminate so you can't say I'm being racist, so you shout sexist instead. You're a predictable joke. 

You're just attempting to deflect. You view and talk about women as sexual objects. It's obvious. I care very little for what other people have claimed gay people to be, it has no bearing on my opinions. Treating men like objects is also shameful and wrong, plenty of gays do that. Doesn't change the fact you treat women as such.

I have never once seen you talk about women in a way that wasn't sexual. Hell, we could be talking about Mother Theresa and you'll probably say something vulgar about wanting to "dick" her.

What you don't seem to understand is that your actions have more weight than your words. You can say "waaah I'm not sexist" all you want. But the fact is, your actions, like saying something sexual every time you talk about a woman, is a clear indication. You can say "waaah I'm not racist" all you want but when you're constantly race baiting, in fact you went as far as to call me a racist at one point as well, and making almost everything about race in a subtle way, it's obvious. You had a very clear motivation for posting this thread, along with most of your other threads, and it usually pits whites (in this case whites and Asians) against people of color. At this point, you're not fooling anyone.

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