Seb

World Bank initiative

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World Bank

The PNW bank would work as a saving account for the nations of PNW.

This would allow for nations that are not comfortable investing in private banks to be able to put money away and earn something for money not currently being used toward cities, resources, and infrastructure.

Two ways this could be implemented.

1.       With CD (certificate of deposit). These CDs would have a 1 month long contract, meaning the owner of this certificate can choose to withdraw or renew the contract every month.

Each CD can cost from 10m, 50m, or 100m and earn the nation buying it 0.2% daily interest, that means that every 100m deposited, the nation will earn an extra 200k income per day.

2.       Once you put money in the investment bank you will not be able to touch it until the time is over. You will not be able to start a new investment account until the first one has finished. A cap of 1 billion would be the max to invest every week or month. The interest rate would change and be determined by how much money was being invested in PNW and length of investment.

These certificates and investments would be guaranteed by Alex.

 

The PNW Bank should also allow for people to take out loans as well.

Nations that will most likely use this will be smaller nations that find it difficult to grow on their own.

How would the nation pay this loan?

A set percentage would be discounted from the nations income in a daily basis similar to an alliance tax.

Interests would be 0.5% of the loan per day.

The French loan system can be used to calculate how much interest to take and also figure out a payback method for 30, 60 or 90 days.

Money will not be given as this could easily be exploited. Instead the bank would buy their next city.

 This purchase would then become the outstanding debt the nation has with the World Bank.

Those not wanting to take out a loan for the full cost of a new city can put a down payment down.

Nations should be able to make a direct deposit themselves to pay the loan back faster and would not be able to build another city or project until the loan in paid.

In case of small nations below 10 cities, the option to buy 2 or 3 cities without having finished paying their original loan could be implemented, then they would be able to grow to a good size while they figure out if they like the game or not.

National Project: World Bank

Cost: 100m/150m

Increases investment cap to 5 billion

 

Leave out

Some may wonder what would happen to private banks, they would still exist, this type of banking offers very reduced interest rates to investors, 1.4% weekly, way lower to anything any bank currently gives with the only upside to it that their investments are 100% guaranteed.

It also only offers services for smaller nations seeking help to grow faster, and it would be only available for 1 city at the time, the nation would not be able to take multiple loans to grow exponentially.

Private banks would also be able to give loans to nations in need of resources to war, or to alliances trying to start an aggressive expansion in their ranks.

 

Possible questions:

-Why only 0.2% per day which sums up to 1.4% weekly while you can get anywhere from 2% to 3.5% in private banks?

Because this is just an option to large economies that don’t want to deal with the hassle of having their money administered by third parties, their payback would be less, but also will their hassle.

-Why the interests are so high for nations taking loans, there is a big gap between 0.2% and 0.5%?

Because 0.5% interests match the 3.5% interests private banks give to investors looking to deposit money. This way we prevent any loophole in the system where nations would be tempted to take a loan at a lower cost for their next city while investing their actual cash in the private bank system.

-why not just give money?

This would tempt nations to take money out and attempt to exploit it.

Why limit the loans to the value of their next city and buying the actual city automatically?

This is to prevent a nation from taking out a large loan, sending away the money and deleting only to start again.

Why not loan to alliances?

Because alliances would need to take out liquid money and it would be open to be exploited.

 

if you are interested to know how the french system works, I attached an excel sheet

the example shows 100m to be paid in 60 days taking almost 2m a day as payment.

 

french system.xls

thanks to endiness for helping me polish the details

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You know, while your idea is all good and all, there's probably going to be a game breaking glitch in it...Also, what happens when a nation deletes, how is that money retrieved? Is this money generated out of no where, or by savings accounts? This would be a game breaking exploit...not in the good way either. (depending on how its implemented)

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19 minutes ago, Seb said:

World Bank

The PNW bank would work as a saving account for the nations of PNW.

This would allow for nations that are not comfortable investing in private banks to be able to put money away and earn something for money not currently being used toward cities, resources, and infrastructure.

Two ways this could be implemented.

1.       With CD (certificate of deposit). These CDs would have a 1 month long contract, meaning the owner of this certificate can choose to withdraw or renew the contract every month.

Each CD can cost from 10m, 50m, or 100m and earn the nation buying it 0.2% daily interest, that means that every 100m deposited, the nation will earn an extra 200k income per day.

2.       Once you put money in the investment bank you will not be able to touch it until the time is over. You will not be able to start a new investment account until the first one has finished. A cap of 1 billion would be the max to invest every week or month. The interest rate would change and be determined by how much money was being invested in PNW and length of investment.

These certificates and investments would be guaranteed by Alex.

 

The PNW Bank should also allow for people to take out loans as well.

Nations that will most likely use this will be smaller nations that find it difficult to grow on their own.

How would the nation pay this loan?

A set percentage would be discounted from the nations income in a daily basis similar to an alliance tax.

Interests would be 0.5% of the loan per day.

The French loan system can be used to calculate how much interest to take and also figure out a payback method for 30, 60 or 90 days.

Money will not be given as this could easily be exploited. Instead the bank would buy their next city.

 This purchase would then become the outstanding debt the nation has with the World Bank.

Those not wanting to take out a loan for the full cost of a new city can put a down payment down.

Nations should be able to make a direct deposit themselves to pay the loan back faster and would not be able to build another city or project until the loan in paid.

In case of small nations below 10 cities, the option to buy 2 or 3 cities without having finished paying their original loan could be implemented, then they would be able to grow to a good size while they figure out if they like the game or not.

National Project: World Bank

Cost: 100m/150m

Increases investment cap to 5 billion

 

Leave out

Some may wonder what would happen to private banks, they would still exist, this type of banking offers very reduced interest rates to investors, 1.4% weekly, way lower to anything any bank currently gives with the only upside to it that their investments are 100% guaranteed.

It also only offers services for smaller nations seeking help to grow faster, and it would be only available for 1 city at the time, the nation would not be able to take multiple loans to grow exponentially.

Private banks would also be able to give loans to nations in need of resources to war, or to alliances trying to start an aggressive expansion in their ranks.

 

Possible questions:

-Why only 0.2% per day which sums up to 1.4% weekly while you can get anywhere from 2% to 3.5% in private banks?

Because this is just an option to large economies that don’t want to deal with the hassle of having their money administered by third parties, their payback would be less, but also will their hassle.

-Why the interests are so high for nations taking loans, there is a big gap between 0.2% and 0.5%?

Because 0.5% interests match the 3.5% interests private banks give to investors looking to deposit money. This way we prevent any loophole in the system where nations would be tempted to take a loan at a lower cost for their next city while investing their actual cash in the private bank system.

-why not just give money?

This would tempt nations to take money out and attempt to exploit it.

Why limit the loans to the value of their next city and buying the actual city automatically?

This is to prevent a nation from taking out a large loan, sending away the money and deleting only to start again.

Why not loan to alliances?

Because alliances would need to take out liquid money and it would be open to be exploited.

 

if you are interested to know how the french system works, I attached an excel sheet

the example shows 100m to be paid in 60 days taking almost 2m a day as payment.

 

french system.xls

thanks to endiness for helping me polish the details

you gotta point out what glitches and what exploits, you are being a little vague about it.

if a nation deleted with an outstanding loan, the money would dissapear with the nation, thats the magic of coding, Alex can code a gazillion dollars if he wants.

10 minutes ago, Paul Warburg said:

You know, while your idea is all good and all, there's probably going to be a game breaking glitch in it...Also, what happens when a nation deletes, how is that money retrieved? Is this money generated out of no where, or by savings accounts? This would be a game breaking exploit...not in the good way either. (depending on how its implemented)

you gotta point out what glitches and what exploits, you are being a little vague about it.

if a nation deleted with an outstanding loan, the money would dissapear with the nation, thats the magic of coding, Alex can code a gazillion dollars if he wants.

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Image result for multiplying gif

O god they're multiplying!!!

Soon there will be more banks than micros!!!

Edited by evilpiggyfoofoo
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No, this stupid. Everyone is just gonna hide their shit there and would increase inflation.

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1 hour ago, James II said:

I trust the private banks more than Alex tbh.

 

1 hour ago, Sun Yat-sen said:

No, this stupid. Everyone is just gonna hide their shit there and would increase inflation.

What have you wrought? You have me agreeing with these two.

1. This adds a new source of money without adding a method that takes it back out at an equal rate. The interest on the city loans even though its larger is going against smaller principle. So unless there is a massive uptake in the whale tier this system will add more money to the system then it removes. See inflation.

2. Any form of income needs to have a risk with it. Even infra carries a certain level of risk, this carries basically none.

3. Blockades?

4. Need to hide your alliance's rebuild cash?

5. I see newbies not knowing what they are doing taking out city loans right off the bat and not being able to grow properly as a result.

6. What if you have negative income?

7. What if the loan payments put you into negative income?

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2 hours ago, evilpiggyfoofoo said:

Image result for multiplying gif

O god they're multiplying!!!

Soon there will be more banks than micros!!!

loan moniez plz

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While I like the idea in theory...

I don't like the idea of taking away the agency of players and turning it into an inflexible/infallible game mechanic.  (bugs/imbalances aside...)

We don't need this precisely because we DO have player-run banks.  Hiding your cash is trivial these days.  People who "aren't comfortable" investing in private banks need to get over themselves.  By this point private banking has been around for at least two and a half years, possibly even longer.  

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A non-player driven alternative seems like a bad idea. The more player-driven systems in place the better, using mechanics should be avoided unless it helps to aid the player driven systems rather than replace them.

Also this provides an easy place for people to hide money. That happens quite a bit already, this would make it considerably worse by allowing individual nations to hide their money independent of their alliance administration.

Better tools to create private banks would be preferable. Like "organizations" independent of alliances that can include multiple members, have their own organization page, a shared bank (with public records) and the ability to trade with that organization rather than a nation. Then you can simply emulate the mechanics of alliances, and have that bank be lootable by raiding members of the organization rather than the alliance.

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7 hours ago, Seb said:

you gotta point out what glitches and what exploits, you are being a little vague about it.

if a nation deleted with an outstanding loan, the money would dissapear with the nation, thats the magic of coding, Alex can code a gazillion dollars if he wants.

you gotta point out what glitches and what exploits, you are being a little vague about it.

if a nation deleted with an outstanding loan, the money would dissapear with the nation, thats the magic of coding, Alex can code a gazillion dollars if he wants.

Yes the power of coding, Then WHY wont Alex code in a banking system, where nations can deposit any sum they want and get a daily % added to said sum within the protected bank system that no nation can even raid, a protected vault, in the same bank they could also take a loan from the game and have it taken out automatically at every turn of the game, I am wondering WHY have this if Alex is just going to code in money for you upon any mistakes you make then why not simply code in a bank system, it could be set at % so private banks can still run on some level, I personally think having any alliance in any game having that amount of power to have any amount coded in that they lose put the whole Econ of the game at risk.

If i buy Steel in the hope of reselling it at a higher price but find myself short and have to sell early and lose cash that's my risk, BUT you are taking ZERO risk but plan on making a huge amount of cash for no risk at all. What happens if you are raided, or caught up in a war will all your funds be coded back in ?

Edited by Long Shanks
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5 hours ago, Dr Rush said:

 

What have you wrought? You have me agreeing with these two.

1. This adds a new source of money without adding a method that takes it back out at an equal rate. The interest on the city loans even though its larger is going against smaller principle. So unless there is a massive uptake in the whale tier this system will add more money to the system then it removes. See inflation.

2. Any form of income needs to have a risk with it. Even infra carries a certain level of risk, this carries basically none.

3. Blockades?

4. Need to hide your alliance's rebuild cash?

5. I see newbies not knowing what they are doing taking out city loans right off the bat and not being able to grow properly as a result.

6. What if you have negative income?

7. What if the loan payments put you into negative income?

unless it is coded in to the game, this system will cause more smaller nations to leave than stay, secondly I personally have no idea who Seb is, by his profile he is not staff so i do not think this would be hard coded in, so do not forget bails man who will have to collect unpaid loans.

if its built in to the game, the OP does not make it clear then why would anyone blockade they could simply take a loan, 

Edited by Long Shanks
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This could work if the above questions/problems are addressed. A number of fail-safe arguments would need to be added along the lines of: Withdrawal Cap, Deposit Cap, Maximum of 1 deposit & 1 withdrawal per month etc to stop abuse of the system

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5 hours ago, Arrow said:

This could work if the above questions/problems are addressed. A number of fail-safe arguments would need to be added along the lines of: Withdrawal Cap, Deposit Cap, Maximum of 1 deposit & 1 withdrawal per month etc to stop abuse of the system

There isn't really any way to address the problem I brought up re: player agency and replacing it with a hard-coded system.

If you do it, you will be increasing competition for the player-founded banks, because a hard coded system is much less risky than a player-run system.  I founded a bank has completely open books to avoid accusations of fraud and to make it clear how the numbers work, and even that bank would lose business, because a bank that just *probably* won't !@#$ up is still more risky than a bank that *can't* !@#$ up. 

Why do this when there are already banks?  Why penalize the players, like Seb, Paul Warburg, and myself, who took it upon ourselves to create a solution to financing problems?  Just.. why?  I don't see the need that this would fill that isn't already being addressed.  

If any of you have finance concerns of ANY sort, I encourage you to seek out your friendly neighborhood banker.  I can assure you we can figure out a way to do almost anything... for a price, of course.  We're not charities.  If you don't trust private banks, then... well...

12 hours ago, Psweet said:

People who "aren't comfortable" investing in private banks need to get over themselves.  By this point private banking has been around for at least two and a half years, possibly even longer. 

 

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guys, this bank would be coded by Alex, its a project I sent to him and he liked it and wanted to hear the popular opinion.

but this bank would benefit lower nations allowing them to take loans while private banks would give them insane interest rates and dry them up and force them to quit and default.

I am the owner of one of this private banks, the difference with me is that I am willing to evolve to make the community a better place while other bank owners just want to keep cashing in money.

so for once, put your greedyness aside and think what could be best for the community, a world bank available for everybody and not to a selected few that happen to be friends with the bankers or for instance are willing to pay insane interest rates.

this rates have been as high as 11% a week to my knowledge.

if you are going to critisize it, do it with a valid opinion and not a biased "I like my money making machine and don't want to let go" opinion.

private banks can still exist and this World Bank would be a tool to get the smaller nations their next city ahead of time, that is all.

Edited by Seb
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6 hours ago, Arrow said:

This could work if the above questions/problems are addressed. A number of fail-safe arguments would need to be added along the lines of: Withdrawal Cap, Deposit Cap, Maximum of 1 deposit & 1 withdrawal per month etc to stop abuse of the system

withdrawals, like we pointed out in the first post could be done after the CD period ran out, so you can't do it anytime you want.

lets say the period is 1 month, you can withdraw it after that month is up.

for further investments, you would also have to wait until that month is up to invest more money and buy a new CD for an increased amount.

deposits were also specified, 1b without a project and by adding a quite pricey new national project, it would increase to 5b.

I don't think there should be a withdrawal cap aslong as it is done when the term of the CD is up.

to shorten the margin of that money being available but not withdrawn and make it liable for an exploit, we could have a 2 day period between the CD's termination and its withdrawal, if the nation didn't renew the CD the money would be depositted into the nation automatically.

Edited by Seb
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8 hours ago, Long Shanks said:

 What happens if you are raided, or caught up in a war will all your funds be coded back in ?

the funds would be coded back in if you are in a war at the same time the CD expires and you happen to forget to renew it.

it would be a negligence of the player.

and this CDs can be bought in a set day of the month, lets say 1st of every month, or the first 2 days of every month. If you don't invest it then, you miss your chance and gotta wait another month. That way you reduce the chances of it being an exploited system.

but if you are so worried about exploits, tell me what exactly are you afraid of and how would you fix it, this thread is to find out opinions and all this failsafe mechs that could be implemented to make it good.

13 hours ago, Dr Rush said:

 

What have you wrought? You have me agreeing with these two.

1. This adds a new source of money without adding a method that takes it back out at an equal rate. The interest on the city loans even though its larger is going against smaller principle. So unless there is a massive uptake in the whale tier this system will add more money to the system then it removes. See inflation.

2. Any form of income needs to have a risk with it. Even infra carries a certain level of risk, this carries basically none.

3. Blockades?

4. Need to hide your alliance's rebuild cash?

5. I see newbies not knowing what they are doing taking out city loans right off the bat and not being able to grow properly as a result.

6. What if you have negative income?

7. What if the loan payments put you into negative income?

1. private banks already have that source of extra money, so this would be an alternative to this private banks.

2. why does all money have to have a risk? I don't see why it can't be risk free with a very low income source.

3. how would blockades affect it?

4. I guess you could hide that money but it would only be available for withdrawal once a month

5. the code would prevent such a thing because the loan would only get them 1 more city and would have a payback automated system for 30, 60 or 90 days.

6.to have negative income you would need to be at war and your infraestructure destroyed, I think that in the case of the nation being at war, a pause on paying the loan could be coded in, private banks have this rule too, where nations don't have to pay their loans while they are at war.

7. that just doesn't make sense unless you have absolutely no infraestructure, but I guess that if you can't pay the loan, you will never be out of debt and 1 city is all you will ever get out of the bank. in the excel sheet I sent I made an example of a 100m loan (for a nation buying its 14th city) in which the nation would have to pay 2m a day of the loan (if the interests were 0.5% daily or 3.5% weekly) a nation with 14 cities can easily make twice that much money.

lets say you want to buy your 10th city, that loan would then be 40m at most, so your payment would be less than 1m a day for a 60 day period. a nation that doesn't make 1m a day at 10 cities is doing something incredibly wrong.

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also I want to add.

this is a good way to save lets say 500m for a rebuild after a war.

We all know that before a war, there is a ton of cash in hand but after the war rebuilds are hard because money is scarce, private banks take advantage of the necesity and raise their interests and still 80% of the game have to spend the next 2 months slowly grinding up their rebuilds.

what if you could safely deposit 300m on the first of a month and keep it there renewing that money once a month until you finally have a war, then you could withdraw it at the end of it to rebuild instantly. It would be one more tool to use by the entire community, if its available for everyone, its not unfair.

and your rebuilds wouldn't be politically tied to private banks. you could finally be the owner of your own instant rebuild and be able to safely plan ahead for any contigencies

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56 minutes ago, Seb said:

private banks can still exist and this World Bank would be a tool to get the smaller nations their next city ahead of time, that is all.

“A tool to get smaller nations their next city ahead of time, that is all.” That defeats the purpose of alliances giving grants to their new members for growth. Alliances are suppose to be responsible for that. This bank literally has no real reason for existence but for loaded individuals to hide their resources and cash to avoid war which would cause this game to rot with infested pixel huggers. 

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1 minute ago, Sun Yat-sen said:

“A tool to get smaller nations their next city ahead of time, that is all.” That defeats the purpose of alliances giving grants to their new members for growth. Alliances are suppose to be responsible for that. This bank literally has no real reason for existence but for loaded individuals to hide their resources and cash to avoid war which would cause this game to rot with infested pixel huggers. 

alliances can still give grants, why would they stop that? as a private bank owner tho, I have received numerous requests for loans to small nations wanting to grow 1 more city, and everytime I have denied them the opportunity for fear of a default, many of this guys are in micro alliances with no money at all and have a hard time getting this grants you speak of.

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