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Starting 2018 the Right Way


RightHonorable
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31 minutes ago, Shiho Nishizumi said:

It's not the same. The problem is that you're working towards that becoming a reality in spite of your sphere denouncing Syndisphere for having achieved that (nevermind that opposing an all-powerful hegemoney was the main reason you bunched up to begin with).

And if the fragments that split from EMC ever cooperate in taking you down (which is, then again, not a guarantee), it'll be mainly as a result of IQ's unwillingness to give up the power they've amassed and their intent to consolidate/expand upon it. It'd be more of a self-fulfilled prophecy situation than one of feigning a split just for baiting purposes, as you seem to think is the case

I'm sorry but I posted this earlier and I will gladly do it again, what Syndisphere/OO achieved by January of last year is extremely different to where IQ stands today. Simply put Syndisphere/OO controlled most tiers in terms of coherent organisation and activity and took a part their opposition systematically. At the end of Silent, Polaris, NPO, UPN, VE, Rose were down and out, Rose flipped sides (that's actually consolidation here for syndisphere) and they took down TEst and others during Papers, Please. There existed no real force that could seriously take them down and that led to the founding of IQ. Fast forward seven months, IQ lost a war and has been rebuilding and requiring to catch up, while the majority of EMC have not lost a war in a few years, had time to build up and have had more time to build up war chests amongst other things within this game. The scenario from the formation of IQ and the end of tS/OO to today are entirely different scenarios and the constant narrative that you folks seem to keep pushing that IQ and Syndisphere have some how equivalent circumstances is false. 

You folks have had time to discuss the changes you want to do, gone about your cancellations in your own manner and then just stuff this narrative that we immediately have to do the same, which is just a bunch bullshit that we aren't going to buy at face value. We have no clue what the relationships are between you folks and Orbis has had a history of informal groupings/pairings and those calculations have to be taken into any decision that needs to be made. You folks have a calculated break-up and within 15 days expect us to believe everything you have to say, despite your overt aggressive tone and just have us believe you and go about splitting into parts to allow you folks to group up and pick us off one-by-one is complete and utter crap move trying to pull. 

You want us to believe there exists a real breakup? The evidence would lie if you stopped trying to jam narratives down our throat and try telling us what to do and instead communicate/build bridges and actually go about doing FA work in convincing folks that there exists a real change. The evidence lies in the efforts of your FA team, and if they've been failing, its on them, not us. So go about doing your goddamn jobs in building bridges and communicating across the divide, rather than treating NPO/IQ as the enemy and giving us no motivation to take your word, when all it seems is a PR spin to try to claim we're still the bad guys. 

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What really needs to happen isn't blocs or spheres splitting up, or paper being signed, or paper being burned. What really needs to happen, simply put, IS WAR.

GO TO WAR ALREADY. Fight to destroy! Burn their infra even if it means risking yours! Hit them with navy until your ships are sunk, then hit them with air until your aircraft are shot down, then hit them with soldiers until your soldiers' bodies are piled high enough to fortify using them as wall material! Then launch missiles and nukes until kingdom come, or your enemies are done! Stop having resources, and start USING resources!

If your allies don't understand or don't care to do this, then hit it solo! Paperless single-nation raid alliances are the new meta! Manage your own bank, get grants whenever you aren't blockaded and without needing to apply for them through some bureaucratic process!

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4 minutes ago, Dr Rush said:

This. Also I need to file a copyright infringement lawsuit over the thread ttitle.

I mean if its all you major fa types can manage, some prearanged 1vs1 wars with set duration and terms aren't the most terrible thing ever.

 

 

Also as an aside. I can't believe no one has really spelled it out like this yet so I'll do it. If we run through every available match up for a major war and the results we get;

1. EMC splinter hits other EMC splinter. Even if this proves the split is real, it leaves the victorious side in for a rolling from IQ. 

2. One of the EMC splinters hits IQ on their own, said splinter gets rolled.  The other splinter is also left to get rolled in the near future.

3. Both splinters hit IQ at the same time, IQ cries foul on break up, and we return to the previous dynamic.

4. Both splinters do nothing, IQ complains that they don't believe the split, we all sit and do nothing.

5. IQ attacks a splinter and the other one stays out. IQ is free to roll the pother splinter at their convenience.

6. IQ attacks one splinter and the other ODs in to prevent scenario 5, IQ cries foul and we return to previous dynamic.

7. IQ attacks both splinters, we basically repeat the last war.

8. IQ breaks up and EMC reforms, IQ is basically forced to reform or get rolled. We return the previous dynamic plus alot additional hate.

9. IQ breaks up and everyone plays treaty shuffle, game gets ti live a couple more years.

 

In none of these do the EMC splinters move first and achieve a good outcome for the game. 

 

Or you know folks actually have a plan and go about working on it, rather than just requiring IQ to do whatever the !@#$ they want IQ to do. 

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btw I think this is a good step for Lordran, becoming part of the group that counts and no longer one of the alliances that orbit around the IQ without having much decision-making ability, their growth and value are recognized

I also have a growing sympathy for Acadia (another sign that we need war)

 

@Sir Scarfalot +1 for you

@Dr Rush +1 also for you

You saved me the trouble of writing the post, it's exactly what I wanted to wrote

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Who would have guessed that a bunch of secret treaties that no one but the signatories knows about would make action hard for everyone else.

Complain about IQ all you want, at least you know where we stand. 

Edited by LeotheGreat
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50 minutes ago, Shadowthrone said:

 

Or you know folks actually have a plan and go about working on it, rather than just requiring IQ to do whatever the !@#$ they want IQ to do. 

Or you know totally miss my point. Which is that EMC has already made a rather risky move and has no others unless IQ makes the next one.

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23:38 Skable that's why we don't want Rose involved, so we can take the m all for ourselves

23:39 [] but Mensa is the cute girl at the school dance and she's only dancing with us right now to get our friend jealous

23:39 [] If Rose comes in and gives Mensa what she wants, she'll just toss us aside and forget we ever existed

23:39 zombie_lanae yeah I do hope we can keep having them all to ourselves

23:40 zombie_lanae I know it's selfish but I want all their love

 

 

6:55 PM <+Isolatar> Praise Dio

Pubstomper|BNC [20:01:55] Rose wouldn't plan a hit on Mensa because it would be &#33;@#&#036;ing stupid

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8 minutes ago, Dr Rush said:

Or you know totally miss my point. Which is that EMC has already made a rather risky move and has no others unless IQ makes the next one.

Haven’t seen the risk yet so sorry for not rushing to our suicide. 

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17 minutes ago, LeotheGreat said:

Haven’t seen the risk yet so sorry for not rushing to our suicide. 

Haven't seen the risk? Do you not see the risk in our entire sphere breaking up? Everyone of former t$ sphere has placed themselves in an extremely vulnerable position. We have IQ which has amassed massive power and could easily roll anyone of the former t$ shpere alliances or minispheres which are no longer united but broken apart everywhere on the web. I know all of ya'll think we're secretly united or something but you guys are putting bullshit in your own heads. Screw it on straight and jump back into reality please.

Edited by Justin076
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Chief Financial Officer of The Syndicate

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3 hours ago, Justin076 said:

I don’t really think EMC ever went around gloating about winning. They just won, and they won for the most part, defensive wars, so even if they did gloat, they kinda have a right to. 

Saying they win all the time to defend people banding together to stop them from winning is a stupid excuse. IQ had the opportunity to win last global war but messed up their opportunity, you can’t blame EMC for winning a defensive war which they were outnumbered in. 

“EMC contributed to past stagnation so IQ is allowed to cause stagnation in the present day.” Guess what, just because in the past EMC may have contributed to stagnation doesn’t mean its right and give IQ a thumbs up to destroy the game. We changed, made moves and have been trying to help move the game forward, IQ has however, continued the status quo of stagnation and the slow death of the game. 

 

PS: Ill probably issue a response to Roq later, too tired rn.

They did indeed gloat, whether it was privately or publically. I've never been in the IQ sphere but I have been in Syndisphere and I know for a fact that gloating about their superiority is rather common, or at least was. The amount of times I've heard "we won every war" is too many to count.

As for this split, there isn't really evidence to suggest EMC did it for the good of the game. Anyone familiar with the situation knows TKR wanted out for their own political reasons and that Rose beat them to the punch.

I'm not saying IQ is doing the right thing, what I am saying is that it's justified and what people should've expected. Their refusal to get behind the leadership of EMC and break apart as well is understandable. Especially considering the false narrative that EMC and their break up is purely for the good of the game.

Countless times people in EMC have claimed that they are not a hive mind and don't do everything together. To all of a sudden turn around and try to exonerate EMC and claim them to be the good guys because of the actions of Rose, is not accurate and is simply a PR narrative. Even now, in every thread, "former" EMC members who are not allied to eachother anymore continuously berate every action IQ makes. For IQ to see this and think EMC is not truly broken up is understandable.

Both of you guys have your own narratives and both are understandable. But to paint either of you as the innocent good guys is just false.

7 minutes ago, Justin076 said:

I know all of ya'll think we're secretly united or something but you guys are putting bullshit in your own heads. Screw it on straight and jump back into reality please.

Please end this gaslighting bullshit yourself. Their reality is theirs and yours is yours. You don't have a monopoly on reality.

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3 minutes ago, Starbuck said:

They did indeed gloat, whether it was privately or publically. I've never been in the IQ sphere but I have been in Syndisphere and I know for a fact that gloating about their superiority is rather common, or at least was. The amount of times I've heard "we won every war" is too many to count.

As for this split, there isn't really evidence to suggest EMC did it for the good of the game. Anyone familiar with the situation knows TKR wanted out for their own political reasons and that Rose beat them to the punch.

I'm not saying IQ is doing the right thing, what I am saying is that it's justified and what people should've expected. Their refusal to get behind the leadership of EMC and break apart as well is understandable. Especially considering the false narrative that EMC and their break up is purely for the good of the game.

Countless times people in EMC have claimed that they are not a hive mind and don't do everything together. To all of a sudden turn around and try to exonerate EMC and claim them to be the good guys because of the actions of Rose, is not accurate and is simply a PR narrative. Even now, in every thread, "former" EMC members who are not allied to eachother anymore continuously berate every action IQ makes. For IQ to see this and think EMC is not truly broken up is understandable.

Both of you guys have your own narratives and both are understandable. But to paint either of you as the innocent good guys is just false.

Please end this gaslighting bullshit yourself. Their reality is theirs and yours is yours. You don't have a monopoly on reality.

"The amount of times I've heard "we won every war" is too many to count." - If that's your example of Syndisphere gloating its extremely poor. "We won every war"? That's simply stating facts, not really gloating. Syndisphere was extremely successful in war, especially considering they, for the most part, were often on the defense. You can't argue against the fact they did win and were extremely good at war. They deserved their victories, deserved the reputation they built for themselves and hey, even if they gloated a bit, privately or publicly, they kinda established a right to do so due to their success even when at times they were facing adversity and on the defense.

Im not saying IQ is doing the right thing, what I am saying is that it's justified and what people should've expected. Their refusal to get behind the leadership of EMC and break apart as well is understandable. Especially considering the false narrative that EMC and their break up is purely for the good of the game. - How exactly is it justified? The past narratives of IQ, including the main reason of its formation were to fight the stagnation and poor game atmosphere when Syndisphere developed into a "hegemoney" and grew extremely strong. They wanted to create a more dynamic environment and wanted to have a more equal game where no one was sitting on top and had no opposition. Now that EMC has split and the game has no real potential opposition for IQ, they have developed into the very same thing they spoke out against just a year ago. If their intentions were truly to end stagnation and the "hegemoney" that developed, they would be making moves or at least showing some signs of change. However they continue to consolidate and create and poor game environment. 

Even now, in every thread, "former" EMC members who are not allied to eachother anymore continuously berate every action IQ makes. For IQ to see this and think EMC is not truly broken up is understandable. - Most of the more recent actions have been to help better the game, its stagnant, nothing is happening so people who were on our side starting making moves with the hope that IQ would stop consolidating their power and make a move of their own to help create a better game environment, and yeah, when all we see from IQ is new treaty announcements and the status quo, no doubt that former EMC members are going to unite and speak out against it. 

Please end this gaslighting bullshit yourself. Their reality is theirs and yours is yours. You don't have a monopoly on reality. - I'm basing my reality over actual reality. I can link you to the treaty cancellations of former EMC members, I can link you to the treaty web, all of it is out their and thats the reality. IQ's "reality" is that EMC didn't split, we're all still secretly working together and waiting for IQ to disband so we can get back together and roll them. Well, that reality is based off of speculation and theory, while my reality is simply what has occurred and what formally exists. 

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Chief Financial Officer of The Syndicate

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17 minutes ago, Justin076 said:

"The amount of times I've heard "we won every war" is too many to count." - If that's your example of Syndisphere gloating its extremely poor. "We won every war"? That's simply stating facts, not really gloating. Syndisphere was extremely successful in war, especially considering they, for the most part, were often on the defense. You can't argue against the fact they did win and were extremely good at war. They deserved their victories, deserved the reputation they built for themselves and hey, even if they gloated a bit, privately or publicly, they kinda established a right to do so due to their success even when at times they were facing adversity and on the defense.

Im not saying IQ is doing the right thing, what I am saying is that it's justified and what people should've expected. Their refusal to get behind the leadership of EMC and break apart as well is understandable. Especially considering the false narrative that EMC and their break up is purely for the good of the game. - How exactly is it justified? The past narratives of IQ, including the main reason of its formation were to fight the stagnation and poor game atmosphere when Syndisphere developed into a "hegemoney" and grew extremely strong. They wanted to create a more dynamic environment and wanted to have a more equal game where no one was sitting on top and had no opposition. Now that EMC has split and the game has no real potential opposition for IQ, they have developed into the very same thing they spoke out against just a year ago. If their intentions were truly to end stagnation and the "hegemoney" that developed, they would be making moves or at least showing some signs of change. However they continue to consolidate and create and poor game environment. 

Even now, in every thread, "former" EMC members who are not allied to eachother anymore continuously berate every action IQ makes. For IQ to see this and think EMC is not truly broken up is understandable. - Most of the more recent actions have been to help better the game, its stagnant, nothing is happening so people who were on our side starting making moves with the hope that IQ would stop consolidating their power and make a move of their own to help create a better game environment, and yeah, when all we see from IQ is new treaty announcements and the status quo, no doubt that former EMC members are going to unite and speak out against it. 

Please end this gaslighting bullshit yourself. Their reality is theirs and yours is yours. You don't have a monopoly on reality. - I'm basing my reality over actual reality. I can link you to the treaty cancellations of former EMC members, I can link you to the treaty web, all of it is out their and thats the reality. IQ's "reality" is that EMC didn't split, we're all still secretly working together and waiting for IQ to disband so we can get back together and roll them. Well, that reality is based off of speculation and theory, while my reality is simply what has occurred and what formally exists. 

The point you are missing about the gloating thing is that they said it all the time often when it was unnecessary. What you seem to not understand is the act of saying something, even if the statement is true, has it's own consequences. I personally believe no one has the "right" to gloat. Well you have the right to say whatever you want. But that doesn't mean you're not an arrogant person for saying it.

It's justified because that's how politics works. If one sphere has won every war, have gloated about it, and have publically said they will not break up (even though they eventually would), you should kind of expect people to band together tightly, as I said. EMC never had the narrative to make the game better until... Now? The people that broke from EMC didn't even say it was for the good of the game, at least to my knowledge. So to say that is the intention is also a narrative. There is no real proof for that, every alliance acts based on their own self interest. To think otherwise is just idealistic.

IQ has a right to be suspicious of this break up. To say they don't isn't basing your opinion on reality. You seem to think facts speak for themselves but they do not. While you may look at the facts and take them at face value, that is not to say you have the full picture of reality. Trying to gaslight people and say that their thoughts are not grounded in reality is a very poor and abusive argument. They have feelings of suspicion towards this break up and these feelings are valid.

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2 hours ago, LeotheGreat said:

Haven’t seen the risk yet so sorry for not rushing to our suicide. 

The various EMC factions all risk being rolled separately. And if they do band together to defend themselves then the pr damage will make it impossible to attempt another split for what will probably be literal years if ever. This is very much lose/lose. Really if anyone in former EMC does anything at this point its a loss.

So question, why would EMC place themselves in this terribad position as you claim just to roll you or whatever; When they could have just rolled you whenever they felt like it already?

Edited by Dr Rush
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23:38 Skable that's why we don't want Rose involved, so we can take the m all for ourselves

23:39 [] but Mensa is the cute girl at the school dance and she's only dancing with us right now to get our friend jealous

23:39 [] If Rose comes in and gives Mensa what she wants, she'll just toss us aside and forget we ever existed

23:39 zombie_lanae yeah I do hope we can keep having them all to ourselves

23:40 zombie_lanae I know it's selfish but I want all their love

 

 

6:55 PM <+Isolatar> Praise Dio

Pubstomper|BNC [20:01:55] Rose wouldn't plan a hit on Mensa because it would be &#33;@#&#036;ing stupid

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3 hours ago, Shadowthrone said:

I'm sorry but I posted this earlier and I will gladly do it again, what Syndisphere/OO achieved by January of last year is extremely different to where IQ stands today. Simply put Syndisphere/OO controlled most tiers in terms of coherent organisation and activity and took a part their opposition systematically. At the end of Silent, Polaris, NPO, UPN, VE, Rose were down and out, Rose flipped sides (that's actually consolidation here for syndisphere) and they took down TEst and others during Papers, Please. There existed no real force that could seriously take them down and that led to the founding of IQ. Fast forward seven months, IQ lost a war and has been rebuilding and requiring to catch up, while the majority of EMC have not lost a war in a few years, had time to build up and have had more time to build up war chests amongst other things within this game. The scenario from the formation of IQ and the end of tS/OO to today are entirely different scenarios and the constant narrative that you folks seem to keep pushing that IQ and Syndisphere have some how equivalent circumstances is false. 

You folks have had time to discuss the changes you want to do, gone about your cancellations in your own manner and then just stuff this narrative that we immediately have to do the same, which is just a bunch bullshit that we aren't going to buy at face value. We have no clue what the relationships are between you folks and Orbis has had a history of informal groupings/pairings and those calculations have to be taken into any decision that needs to be made. You folks have a calculated break-up and within 15 days expect us to believe everything you have to say, despite your overt aggressive tone and just have us believe you and go about splitting into parts to allow you folks to group up and pick us off one-by-one is complete and utter crap move trying to pull. 

You want us to believe there exists a real breakup? The evidence would lie if you stopped trying to jam narratives down our throat and try telling us what to do and instead communicate/build bridges and actually go about doing FA work in convincing folks that there exists a real change. The evidence lies in the efforts of your FA team, and if they've been failing, its on them, not us. So go about doing your goddamn jobs in building bridges and communicating across the divide, rather than treating NPO/IQ as the enemy and giving us no motivation to take your word, when all it seems is a PR spin to try to claim we're still the bad guys. 

All I have to say for your first paragraph is, re-read my first sentence. I don't really see why you felt the need to retype that when I acknowledged that IQ's situation as of current wasn't the same as the one with t$ a year ago.

As for the 2nd paragraph, it's quite simple. Don't push a rhetoric of opposing to an evil single hegemonic power is killing the game with stagnation, etc etc, and then, when you're finally in a position of being the remaining center of consolidated power (in case I have to make myself clear again, no I'm not saying that it's identical to Syndisphere in the early months of 2017) your group's course of action is to do exactly what you criticized Syndisphere for. Also, I find it quite amusing about how paranoid you're about EMC setting you up with undisclosed MDP's and whatnot, while in reality, you could could play along and do exactly the same thing (have undisclosed MDP's as an insurance if your theory were to materialize). From a PR standpoint, you'd turn out winning due to EMC trying such an underhand tactic to shut down IQ. 

As for the final one. No one's jamming narratives down your throats. People are simply holding IQ to their rhetoric. You know, the one they pushed so much, when it proved politically convenient to them. And to be quite honest, knowing your leadership (going by how they behaved during the peace talks for the last war), they either told the former EMC's FA teams to fulfill some unrealistic requirements for them to tag along, or outright laughed at them and told them to bugger off. So no, I'm quite sure that it isn't a failing on EMC's part, but rather, it's just IQ switching their narrative so they don't look like a bunch of hypocrites because their original narrative was rendered obsolete with EMC splitting, and needed reworking for it to be serviceable.

Edited by Shiho Nishizumi
 
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Ever since the last major war, with two major alliances disbanding, and quite a few others cutting official ties or going in a different direction - there was a prime opportunity to wipe the slate clean.

However, that didn't happen for various reasons.

I certainly don't fault IQ doing what they're doing.  In fact, it should've happened sooner rather than later.  And while the current leadership is at fault for stagnation, so are the leaders for other alliances - including previous aligned EMC/Syndisphere.  

In any case, I would've humored the EMC breakup to see if it was honest.  That is, if any alliances wanted to mend past transgressions at all.

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Seriously, guys. Stop worrying about risks. If you don't take a risk, then you're not going to get into a better position. Use guerilla tactics and burn their resources. Use what you have, or you're just losing wars in your heads and not on the battlefield. You'll never win a theoretical conflict, that's for sure.

Edited by Sir Scarfalot
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2 hours ago, Buorhann said:

In any case, I would've humored the EMC breakup to see if it was honest.  That is, if any alliances wanted to mend past transgressions at all.

Come on now, you and I both know that reconciliation facilitated by new leadership isn't possible. The only things that exist are bandwagoning and consolidation. 

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3 minutes ago, durmij said:

Come on now, you and I both know that reconciliation facilitated by new leadership isn't possible. The only things that exist are bandwagoning and consolidation. 

Just like BK and NPO couldn’t :P 

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4 minutes ago, durmij said:

Come on now, you and I both know that reconciliation facilitated by new leadership isn't possible. The only things that exist are bandwagoning and consolidation. 

There is bandwagoning, consolidation, and those that seek to fight against those things. Guerilla war *works*, if one is willing to make the sacrifices necessary to be truly strong.

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6 minutes ago, LeotheGreat said:

Just like BK and NPO couldn’t :P 

Your sentence literally makes no sense. You're responding to a different statement than the one I made. Please try again.

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7 hours ago, Starbuck said:

The point you are missing about the gloating thing is that they said it all the time often when it was unnecessary. What you seem to not understand is the act of saying something, even if the statement is true, has it's own consequences. I personally believe no one has the "right" to gloat. Well you have the right to say whatever you want. But that doesn't mean you're not an arrogant person for saying it.

We did gloat, we celebrated our victories. I accept that you hold a personal belief that no one has the right to gloat but I hold the personal belief that it's perfectly acceptable to celebrate your wins and lash out at the opposition. It's very human to do so, it happens all the time. This isn't meant as an excuse but the fact that it does happen frequently means that it is accepted in human society, to a point. You can call it arrogant and unnecessary if you'd like but this just strikes me as defeatist bitterness resulting from feeling uncomfortable about winning and what that entails. I don't understand why you want to make winning less fun for the victors.

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