Starting 2018 the Right Way

[Big Brother]

You guys could take a lesson from @Dr Rush on how to kick off the new year the actual right way. Maybe then we'll see some real action besides paper on paper on paper.

[丂ħ̧i̧₣ɫ̵γ͘ ̶™]

10 minutes ago, Big Brother said:

You guys could take a lesson from @Dr Rush on how to kick off the new year the actual right way. Maybe then we'll see some real action besides paper on paper on paper.

Maybe some....

anti-communist action?

[Shadowthrone]

2 hours ago, Justin076 said:

Annnddd when the world grows even more against more paper and more consolidation, Lord and IQ whip out a brand new treaty to start off the new year. Thanks for being counter-productive to putting an end to the slow death of this stagnant game. 

Yes TCW have been the greatest dynamic force in this game and are content to do more than just existing. 

Also congrats fam! Roll Gorge 2018.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Shadowthrone

[Roquentin]

46 minutes ago, Big Brother said:

You guys could take a lesson from @Dr Rush on how to kick off the new year the actual right way. Maybe then we'll see some real action besides paper on paper on paper.

Pre-arranged symbolic nuking? 

[Shadowthrone]

1 hour ago, Roquentin said:

Pre-arranged symbolic nuking? 

Dynamique™ 

 

[Big Brother]

2 hours ago, Roquentin said:

Pre-arranged symbolic nuking?

Hey, it's still more fun than signing treaty after treaty after treaty after treaty (x ∞ ). If you guys keep producing paper at this rate, soon enough there won't be a single tree left on Orbis.

2 hours ago, Lucifer Morningstar said:

Maybe some....

anti-communist action?

From NPO? Shiiet. I doubt that. Any action would be good action at this point though.

[RyanK]

Whats Acadia?

[RomulusTheFirst]

Congrats Lordran and Acadia

[Micchan]

7 hours ago, Roquentin said:

Until you can prove your intentions aren't simply to stay on top

Did you hear it @Justin076? Show him how you're going to stop being at the top, prove your intentions please

This doesn't sound like "Since I'm too incompetent to win with my own strength I will continue to ruin the game until you commit suicide for boredom and I can win by default", ABSOLUTELY not this, please don't misunderstand

 

And guys please notice how Acadia is showing us the way to the glory, let's all join IQ without a treaty with NPO, if the entire game is tied together is not a bloc anymore and NPO is the lone alliance with few treaties compared to the others

[Smith]

8 hours ago, Roquentin said:

Until you can prove your intentions aren't simply to stay on top while primarily beating on smaller nations while just having less paper, no one is going to take this seriously that doesn't already agree. The fact that alliances have that have had consistent track records of being additional heft for the prevailing powers  are suddenly going to change course with less paper isn't something many will take at face value.

Can you explicitly say what you think this "proof" looks like?

[Roquentin]

2 minutes ago, Smith said:

Can you explicitly say what you think this "proof" looks like?

Basically, things that signal a genuinely new meta where alliances like TCW pursue other things besides just beat downs on traditionally weaker opponents. We haven't really seen a new vision expressed except less paper = good and IQ = bad. At this point, we haven't really seen anything except just attempts to shame IQ into breaking up because it didn't fall apart completely like Paracov did.  I just don't see TCW really having issues or competition with anyone who isn't in IQ or tied to it currently when they have had a laser focus. We could say the HW scenario was an exception to that, but people didn't bite it when it turned into a more complicated situation with another top-heavy group.

In TCW's case, the record is basically they joined a dominant sphere at the apex of its power, embarked on wars on Valyria and then Paperless which were lop-sided, joined with no obligation in the last war and since focused fire on denouncing IQ alliances. In the Valyria and paperless cases, they justified them by citing grievances with GPA, but oddly enough those grievance were absent with a TKRsphere alliance which instead they held in the highest respect. Wouldn't it have been interesting if that had been a source of tension?  With IQ, there isn't really even a reason for them to be so upset since no one in IQ would have ever even given TCW much thought aside from the antagonism.  This is by no means unique to TCW aside from the particulars and there are several other alliances that have acted similarly. We all know there are other alliances that have been de facto enforcers of the traditionally victorious side. Are we expecting that to change when many of those alliances have often joined and gone beyond paper simply because there is less?  Right now, I can't fathom real change in some of brave new world since people are too friendly in that arena and whatever tensions may arise aren't significant enough to engender real rivalries, which is why splits without a defining dividing aspect are bad and just obscure and create an invisible treaty web.

[Shiho Nishizumi]

27 minutes ago, Smith said:

Can you explicitly say what you think this "proof" looks like?

Go paperless and war each other, more or less.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Shiho Nishizumi

[Micchan]

32 minutes ago, Roquentin said:

Basically, things that signal a genuinely new meta where alliances like TCW pursue other things besides just beat downs on traditionally weaker opponents. We haven't really seen a new vision expressed except less paper = good and IQ = bad. At this point, we haven't really seen anything except just attempts to shame IQ into breaking up because it didn't fall apart completely like Paracov did.  I just don't see TCW really having issues or competition with anyone who isn't in IQ or tied to it currently when they have had a laser focus. We could say the HW scenario was an exception to that, but people didn't bite it when it turned into a more complicated situation with another top-heavy group.

In TCW's case, the record is basically they joined a dominant sphere at the apex of its power, embarked on wars on Valyria and then Paperless which were lop-sided, joined with no obligation in the last war and since focused fire on denouncing IQ alliances. In the Valyria and paperless cases, they justified them by citing grievances with GPA, but oddly enough those grievance were absent with a TKRsphere alliance which instead they held in the highest respect. Wouldn't it have been interesting if that had been a source of tension?  With IQ, there isn't really even a reason for them to be so upset since no one in IQ would have ever even given TCW much thought aside from the antagonism.  This is by no means unique to TCW aside from the particulars and there are several other alliances that have acted similarly. We all know there are other alliances that have been de facto enforcers of the traditionally victorious side. Are we expecting that to change when many of those alliances have often joined and gone beyond paper simply because there is less?  Right now, I can't fathom real change in some of brave new world since people are too friendly in that arena and whatever tensions may arise aren't significant enough to engender real rivalries, which is why splits without a defining dividing aspect are bad and just obscure and create an invisible treaty web.

Sign a one year NAP with the rest of the world and you will see all your "proofs"

[Justin076]

44 minutes ago, Roquentin said:

Basically, things that signal a genuinely new meta where alliances like TCW pursue other things besides just beat downs on traditionally weaker opponents. We haven't really seen a new vision expressed except less paper = good and IQ = bad. At this point, we haven't really seen anything except just attempts to shame IQ into breaking up because it didn't fall apart completely like Paracov did.  I just don't see TCW really having issues or competition with anyone who isn't in IQ or tied to it currently when they have had a laser focus. We could say the HW scenario was an exception to that, but people didn't bite it when it turned into a more complicated situation with another top-heavy group.

In TCW's case, the record is basically they joined a dominant sphere at the apex of its power, embarked on wars on Valyria and then Paperless which were lop-sided, joined with no obligation in the last war and since focused fire on denouncing IQ alliances. In the Valyria and paperless cases, they justified them by citing grievances with GPA, but oddly enough those grievance were absent with a TKRsphere alliance which instead they held in the highest respect. Wouldn't it have been interesting if that had been a source of tension?  With IQ, there isn't really even a reason for them to be so upset since no one in IQ would have ever even given TCW much thought aside from the antagonism.  This is by no means unique to TCW aside from the particulars and there are several other alliances that have acted similarly. We all know there are other alliances that have been de facto enforcers of the traditionally victorious side. Are we expecting that to change when many of those alliances have often joined and gone beyond paper simply because there is less?  Right now, I can't fathom real change in some of brave new world since people are too friendly in that arena and whatever tensions may arise aren't significant enough to engender real rivalries, which is why splits without a defining dividing aspect are bad and just obscure and create an invisible treaty web.

Joining beat downs and traditionally weaker opponents. Every single war we joined was at the request of an ally. In the case of Valyria, Obelisk whom we had an MDP with requested our assistance. Obviously we agreed to help them because they were our ally and because of what Valyria did to us in the dying days of the GPA. Paperless war, we offered help to our protector TKR, they accpted our offer and requested our assistance. Obviously because of the defacto perpetual war the Paperless held us at in the GPA motivated us to get some sort of action against them. As for Git Gud Friday, we joined immediately to help defend our sphere allies, but anyways my guess is that you aren’t referring to our involvement in that war. 

Grevience absent for a TKR sphere alliance? I’m guessing your referring to Mensa HQ. As for them, I’ve already explained this several times but I will again. Mensa rolled us yes, but it was a short war and they didn’t keep holding us down. They came in, fought and respectfully left and let us do our thing. The Paperless came into the war, were reluctant to leave and following the war, when we were much weaker, they kept raiding us and hitting our whales to keep them from the top 10 leaderboards. As for our grevience with Valyria, they targeted ya when we were down, following a September war with the Paperless, that’s why we held a grevience with them. 

And as for us joining the dominant sphere, TKR was one of the only alliances that GPA spoke to regularly, Dalinar was always on the GPA fourms and often spoke out against the rollings of us. This of course led us to go to them for protection. 

Also I’m not upset with IQ, I’m just disappointed that even when nothing has happened in the game for about 9 months and it continues to be stagnant, IQ continues to do the same things that led to this point of stagnation. People are cutting treaties and you guys keep adding them. Your developing into a hegemoney and have no real opposition but yet still go on as if you do. Please, tell me who your opposition is? There is no more EMC if that’s what your going to say, I know you guys think it’s all fake and shit and we’re just playing you guys but speaking in real terms, who is IQ’s opposition? Furthermore with the game in such a poor state, other parties including EMC leftovers have been trying to make moves and develop ideas to help move the game forward while IQ has been counter-productive and continues to destroy our progress of changing the game for the better. But by all means, keep consolidating and being stagnant, you just keep proving your real intentions and the fact your past narratives were complete BS. 

 

 

PS: I’m done with walls of text, this was too much writing, especially on an iPhone.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Justin076

[Roquentin]

3 minutes ago, Justin076 said:

Joining beat downs and traditionally weaker opponents. Every single war we joined was at the request of an ally. In the case of Valyria, Obelisk whom we had an MDP with requested our assistance. Obviously we agreed to help them becaus they were our ally and because of what Valyria did to us in the dying days of the GPA. Paperless war, we offered help to our protectorate TKR and they accpted our offer and requested our assistance. Obviously because of the defacto perpetual war the Paperless held us at in the GPA motivated us to get some sort of action against them. As for Git Gud Friday, we joined immediately to help defend our sphere allies, but anyways my guess is that you aren’t referring to our involvement in that war. 

Grevience absent for a TKR sphere alliance? I’m guessing your referring to Mensa HQ. As for them, I’ve already explained this several times but I will again. Mensa rolled us yes, but it was a short war and they didn’t keep holding us down. They came in, fought and respectfully left and let us do our thing. The Paperless came into the war, were reluctant to leave and following the war, when we were much weaker, they kept raiding us and hitting our whales to keep them from the top 10 leaderboards. As for our grevience with Valyria, they targeted ya when we were down, following a September war with the Paperless, that’s why we held a grevience with them. 

And as for us joining the dominant sphere, TKR was one of the only alliances that GPA spoke to regularly, Dalinar was always on the GPA fourms and often spoke out against the rollings of us. This of course led us to go to them for protection. 

Also I’m not upset with IQ, I’m just disappointed that even when nothing has happened in the game for about 9 months and it continues to be stagnant, IQ continues to do the same things that led to this point of stagnation. People are cutting treaties and you guys keep adding them. Your developing into a hegemoney and have no real opposition but yet still go on as if you do. Please, tell me who your opposition is? There is no more EMC if that’s what your going to say, I know you guys think it’s all fake and shit and we’re just playing you guys but speaking in real terms, who is IQ’s opposition? Furthermore with the game in such a poor state, other parties including EMC leftovers have been trying to make moves and develop ideas to help move the game forward while IQ has been counter-productive and continues to destroy our progress of changing the game for the better. But by all means, keep consolidating and being stagnant, you just keep proving your real intentions and the fact your past narratives were complete BS. 

 

 

PS: I’m done with walls of text, this was too much writing, especially on an iPhone.

I'll try to tone it  down a bit since I appreciate the response. Basically in any of those instances you mentioned, you didn't really have any obligation to go in and you didn't need treaties with the various participants to chain in on various alliances. Most of those were sorely outnumbered which is what I referred to with beatdowns so even though you were helping allies it's still a pattern. It's great you're willing to go in without an obligation to help the wider group but it's hard to believe you won't continue to do so. It's just also in general we haven't seen any other goals out of TCW, which is why your dissatisfaction here is puzzling.

With Mensa, it wasn't the first time they hit and it was frequently brought up as a reason that GPA was gaining too much economic power in the face of not fighting, so that's why it was weird for GPA/you to let it go. I brought it up since it was the only alliance that warred GPA that wasn't in a completely vulnerable state, so the way it comes off is you were only pursuing the path of least resistance.

With TKR, even with those reasons, it just contributed to enlarging the dominant sphere, so it's hard to believe now that stagnation is a concern for you. Additionally, now outside of IQ, there isn't even anyone that would offer resistance especially when most of the people who fought TKR in the past have either given it up, joined their side, left the game or are dealing with more recent concerns.

It's only been 7 months and there were traditionally smaller wars in between global wars until this last year. We can cite economic change, but the overall lack of conflict doesn't really lay squarely only IQ's shoulders. There are a lot of people that didn't fight a lot in the past year or so that could easily even do smaller wars without setting themselves back a lot.

I mean it's really hard for people to believe there's no opposition when things are more polarized than ever. We can't fully account for all the informal groupings that are more likely to cooperate with each other than with anyone else. The issue is, just reducing paper isn't a real change and it's hard to believe that people who don't see paper as necessary to act will just sit out of conflicts that don't directly lead to them when in many instances they have cooperated for years. It would be pretty naive for us to believe everyone all of a sudden has benign intent.

Meant to make this shorter. sorry.

 

[Starbuck]

To be perfectly honest, EMC had this coming. After literally years of them gloating about how they always win every war, how they're the best and most honorable, etc, a different sphere has more power than them.

Roq indeed has a point that when one side wins every single time, eventually people are going to band together pretty tightly to stop them from winning yet again.

Let's not forget that IQ is not the bloc that contributed the most to the stagnation of this game. Mostly recently they have been. But if you analyze the situation long term, and look at the cultural aspects, there are a whole host of people and alliances to blame.

[Pheonix]

The irony is real, EMC complaining IQ is making the game boring

[Justin076]

14 minutes ago, Starbuck said:

To be perfectly honest, EMC had this coming. After literally years of them gloating about how they always win every war, how they're the best and most honorable, etc, a different sphere has more power than them.

Roq indeed has a point that when one side wins every single time, eventually people are going to band together pretty tightly to stop them from winning yet again.

Let's not forget that IQ is not the bloc that contributed the most to the stagnation of this game. Mostly recently they have been. But if you analyze the situation long term, and look at the cultural aspects, there are a whole host of people and alliances to blame.

I don’t really think EMC ever went around gloating about winning. They just won, and they won for the most part, defensive wars, so even if they did gloat, they kinda have a right to. 

Saying they win all the time to defend people banding together to stop them from winning is a stupid excuse. IQ had the opportunity to win last global war but messed up their opportunity, you can’t blame EMC for winning a defensive war which they were outnumbered in. 

“EMC contributed to past stagnation so IQ is allowed to cause stagnation in the present day.” Guess what, just because in the past EMC may have contributed to stagnation doesn’t mean its right and give IQ a thumbs up to destroy the game. We changed, made moves and have been trying to help move the game forward, IQ has however, continued the status quo of stagnation and the slow death of the game. 

 

PS: Ill probably issue a response to Roq later, too tired rn.

[Shiho Nishizumi]

1 minute ago, Starbuck said:

Let's not forget that IQ is not the bloc that contributed the most to the stagnation of this game. Mostly recently they have been. But if you analyze the situation long term, and look at the cultural aspects, there are a whole host of people and alliances to blame.

Well no shit. IQ is not even a year old, whereas former EMC has existed for years.

To me, it's not so much the consolidation on itself what annoys the rest, but rather, the fact that IQ is doing the very same thing they shit talked Syndisphere/EMC/whatever for doing, and going against their own rhetoric they had been pushing since their foundation.

It's no surprise that with the fragmentation of EMC, they had to find a raison d'être because otherwise, their mere existence would be very much against the principles upon which they split from former Syndisphere (for the alliances that were in Syndisphere, such as BK).  The result is this whole ''We don't believe the fragmentation to be real.'' thing they're pushing. By arguing that the split is just a farce, they can pretend that EMC is still strong enough to justify further consolidation without looking like a bunch of hypocrites. But I doubt that they're fooling anyone but themselves with that. I find the hypocrisy to be quite delicious, to be honest.

Now, I do not blame them for having their reservations about the split, but the other group is at least trying to get something going. They're showing more interest in having something interesting happen than the ones that for months upon months whined and moaned about stagnation, lack of flexibility etc.

 

[durmij]

2 hours ago, Smith said:

Can you explicitly say what you think this "proof" looks like?

 

58 minutes ago, Roquentin said:

Let me win and stop criticizing me in any way.

 

Edited January 3, 2018 by durmij

[Bhuto]

It's really sad to see the game I loved soooooo much for a long time period is getting destroyed by idiotic FA actions ??. 

 

As a person I really respect you roquentin but sadness is even you are not doing anything interesting when you have fair enough power to make great things happen ...I mean I don't have much info about any fa action going on behind the scenes so I am kind of guessing stuffs from AA posts..... But really I think if I had time I could easily quoted you from old posts where you are talking about city count difference of syndiaphere and rest of the game those logics were very much true and it's really sad to see you are doing the exact same thing when you have"THE" power. 

[Roquentin]

10 minutes ago, Shiho Nishizumi said:

Well no shit. IQ is not even a year old, whereas former EMC has existed for years.

To me, it's not so much the consolidation on itself what annoys the rest, but rather, the fact that IQ is doing the very same thing they shit talked Syndisphere/EMC/whatever for doing, and going against their own rhetoric they had been pushing since their foundation.

It's no surprise that with the fragmentation of EMC, they had to find a raison d'être because otherwise, their mere existence would be very much against the principles upon which they split from former Syndisphere (for the alliances that were in Syndisphere, such as BK).  The result is this whole ''We don't believe the fragmentation to be real.'' thing they're pushing. By arguing that the split is just a farce, they can pretend that EMC is still strong enough to justify further consolidation without looking like a bunch of hypocrites. But I doubt that they're fooling anyone but themselves with that. I find the hypocrisy to be quite delicious, to be honest.

Now, I do not blame them for having their reservations about the split, but the other group is at least trying to get something going. They're showing more interest in having something interesting happen than the ones that for months upon months whined and moaned about stagnation, lack of flexibility etc.

 

Won't speak for BK, but the situations aren't really anywhere near the same. At this time last year, even if everyone outside of Syndi/EMC/TKRsphere had banded together it wouldn't have been enough to change things and there was no desire to do that. It was completely skewed. Even when there were even basic conversations between the various fragmented groups even talk the level of hopelessness was too much and people ruled out anything more or less right away. On the other hand, most of the EMC alliances have a long history of cooperation not only with each other but with many of the people who aren't formally tied at an MD level presently while IQ is simply the biggest formal grouping. A few times back then it was even proposed by people like Prefontaine that the outside alliances would just need to ignore Syndi and start fighting each other and pretend they don't exist even if they got hit because there was simply no hope of taking them on.

 

[Spaceman Thrax]

13 minutes ago, Roquentin said:

Won't speak for BK,

 

Heh.

[Roquentin]

2 minutes ago, Spaceman Thrax said:

Heh.

 I didn't see Bhuto/Harry's post before that one, but it would have gotten the same response without his having the mention of BK since it basically boils down to making the situation this time last year appear to be the same as the one this year. I can change it if you like if you're eager to play this angle.

[Shiho Nishizumi]

It's not the same. The problem is that you're working towards that becoming a reality in spite of your sphere denouncing Syndisphere for having achieved that (nevermind that opposing an all-powerful hegemoney was the main reason you bunched up to begin with).

And if the fragments that split from EMC ever cooperate in taking you down (which is, then again, not a guarantee), it'll be mainly as a result of IQ's unwillingness to give up the power they've amassed and their intent to consolidate/expand upon it. It'd be more of a self-fulfilled prophecy situation than one of feigning a split just for baiting purposes, as you seem to think is the case.