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Everyone Expects This


Roquentin
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8 minutes ago, Felkey said:

I love how this is basically a not so subtle shot at your own allies. You could have defended them or something, instead you choose to imply that we are both on the same shit tier... Interesting...

If I wanted to shoot at my own allies I would do it.  They know how I stand on various issues regardless if they like it or not.  Your spin is pretty poor but I expect that from you given your lack of FA ability and drive to produce anything worthwhile.

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11 minutes ago, Spaceman Thrax said:

Oh man.

It was not the intent of IQ as a whole to cause change, and this is part of the proof. Anyone who actually had that intent is now gone from IQ's leadership, leaving a core who think, for example, signing another 40 lower tier nations into IQ is a thing that is anything less than lame.

You do realize that most of the people who were part of IQ's leadership at the start still are around and  supported this? The point has never been to cut off our nose to spite our face. It's the same thing as with the GoG addition. Someone took an interest in joining the bloc who was tied to a signatory, asked to join, and were accepted. We don't actively try to expand the bloc to look cool or anything, but at the same time we're not going to reject people for non-existent brownie points. The type of change the people who made the bloc wanted hasn't happened yet. You could argue some recent cancellations are change, but the consequences of those haven't borne out.

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As for the general tone of this thread, I don't buy into the arguments people make against redundant treaties being the devil and limiting mobility. If there ends up being something that occasions mobility, an alliance with more treaties will often be just as willing to make big step or more. Some of the alliances with the least change in FA in the past few years had very few treaties to begin with. On the other hand, there have been alliances with a lot of treaties who make big moves.

It's certainly not any better to have multiple treaties that straddle spheres just because they're not redundant. That ties up things even more than clear divisions. I'm not really interested in calling out any specific individuals/alliances, but there isn't really a moral high ground here.

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4 minutes ago, Seeker said:

If I wanted to shoot at my own allies I would do it.  They know how I stand on various issues regardless if they like it or not.  Your spin is pretty poor but I expect that from you given your lack of FA ability and drive to produce anything worthwhile.

When you guys do something worth a legitimate response you'll get one. Until then, expect to be a running joke.

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BK! You’re sounding a whole lot like the BK we were allied to. “Don’t make it easy for them” sounds like the syndisphere BK. But wasn’t the point to not be like syndisphere ?

1 minute ago, Roquentin said:

You do realize that most of the people who were part of IQ's leadership at the start still are around and  supported this? The point has never been to cut off our nose to spite our face. It's the same thing as with the GoG addition. Someone took an interest in joining the bloc who was tied to a signatory, asked to join, and were accepted. We don't actively try to expand the bloc to look cool or anything, but at the same time we're not going to reject people for non-existent brownie points. The type of change the people who made the bloc wanted hasn't happened yet. You could argue some recent cancellations are change, but the consequences of those haven't borne out.

---

As for the general tone of this thread, I don't buy into the arguments people make against redundant treaties being the devil and limiting mobility. If there ends up being something that occasions mobility, an alliance with more treaties will often be just as willing to make big step or more. Some of the alliances with the least change in FA in the past few years had very few treaties to begin with. On the other hand, there have been alliances with a lot of treaties who make big moves.

It's certainly not any better to have multiple treaties that straddle spheres just because they're not redundant. That ties up things even more than clear divisions. I'm not really interested in calling out any specific individuals/alliances, but there isn't really a moral high ground here.

Interesting. What’s the type of change you’re looking for then? Specifically, so we know where to look. 

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Just now, Felkey said:

When you guys do something worth a legitimate response you'll get one. Until then, expect to be a running joke.

Hm, a running joke coming from a running joke that's hilarious.  Stop being a try hard fam and do something worth mentioning.

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3 minutes ago, Lordship said:

BK! You’re sounding a whole lot like the BK we were allied to. “Don’t make it easy for them” sounds like the syndisphere BK. But wasn’t the point to not be like syndisphere?

Maybe cause it’s still BK is BK just on the other side :P. Also we never wanted to reject everything syndicate ever did, cause they were pretty dang good. We just wanted to shift a unipolar dynamic which still does not exist at this point. 

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So I feel kind of bad for just noticing this now, but the whole "eye-sword-tentacles" logo on the IQ flag is a pretty cool symbol. Did someone make it or did ya'll get it from somewhere?

Also, congrats Lordran and IQ, and best of luck to all involved. 

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"They say the secret to success is being at the right place at the right time. But since you never know when the right time is going to be, I figure the trick is to find the right place and just hang around!"
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<Kastor> He left and my !@#$ nation is !@#$ed up. And the Finance guy refuses to help. He just writes his !@#$ plays.

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<Kastor> And gives out !@#$ huge loans to Arthur James, that !@#$ bastard.

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4 minutes ago, LeotheGreat said:

Maybe cause it’s still BK is BK just on the other side :P. Also we never wanted to reject everything syndicate ever did, cause they were pretty dang good. We just wanted to shift a unipolar dynamic which still does not exist at this point. 

I mean we can pull up statistics that demonstrate it is unipolar at this point, and with the increase of cancellations, isn’t an interesting, dynamic world not the very thing you tried to create? I’m a bit confused as to why you’d continue in the opposite direction of this. And uhh, you guys spent the whole year denouncing syndisphere after you guys left, and even still when alliances disbanded and went paperless, so I’m not sure that’s true 

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7 minutes ago, Lordship said:

I mean we can pull up statistics that demonstrate it is unipolar at this point, and with the increase of cancellations, isn’t an interesting, dynamic world not the very thing you tried to create? I’m a bit confused as to why you’d continue in the opposite direction of this. And uhh, you guys spent the whole year denouncing syndisphere after you guys left, and even still when alliances disbanded and went paperless, so I’m not sure that’s true 

Unipolar worlds are Made through war. Until something like post-papers please occurs it’s not unipolar. 

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5 minutes ago, LeotheGreat said:

Unipolar worlds are Made through war. Until something like post-papers please occurs it’s not unipolar. 

I disagree with that premise, but I think it’s interesting that you say that. So you guys have to roll us first before you’ll be satisfied? 

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2 minutes ago, Lordship said:

I disagree with that premise, but I think it’s interesting that you say that. So you guys have to roll us first before you’ll be satisfied? 

This isn’t specific to any alliance. But a world isn’t unipolar imo until one side can act with impunity because they know they can defeat anyone else. Something neither IQ or EMC have at this point in time. 

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26 minutes ago, Lordship said:

BK! You’re sounding a whole lot like the BK we were allied to. “Don’t make it easy for them” sounds like the syndisphere BK. But wasn’t the point to not be like syndisphere ?

Interesting. What’s the type of change you’re looking for then? Specifically, so we know where to look. 

The change is one in a distribution of power so there isn't a grouping of alliances with a consistent string of victories that are a safe bet. IQ exists as an alternative still.  When wars for over 2.5 years are won by a certain grouping of people, it burns into memories. People know which courses of action are safe. In an ideal game world, there isn't a particular spot anyone can move to be safe or reap greater material rewards for a long period of time. Even though people talk about the treaties, we haven't seen any change in how people actually situate themselves when it comes to potential conflicts. The fact that people are still focused on the IQ alliances, especially since it's mainly the same people who were anti-IQ before the splits doesn't show there has been a whole lot of change yet. This thread is pretty same old same old.

 

23 minutes ago, TheNG said:

So I feel kind of bad for just noticing this now, but the whole "eye-sword-tentacles" logo on the IQ flag is a pretty cool symbol. Did someone make it or did ya'll get it from somewhere?

Also, congrats Lordran and IQ, and best of luck to all involved. 

Curufinwe got it from the game Dragon Age: Inquisition.

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I'm still trying to work out exactly where Lord is running...

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KastorCultist, Co-leading Roz Wei Empyrea The Wei, former TGH warrior, Assassin, and a few more. Player of this game for more time than I want to think about...

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2 hours ago, LeotheGreat said:

We just wanted to shift a unipolar dynamic which still does not exist at this point. 

And create a new one at that.

EDIT:

Don't take that as too much salt, by the way.  This was going to happen eventually.  The treaty shouldn't have come as a surprise to anybody.  Lordran was allied up with NPO and a couple of others for a long time.  Same thing that occurred with VE.  Nobody attempted to break it a part, or took advantage of when IQ suffered from poor PR.

The only way how you guys (The community, not just IQ) can change things is pick up the FA skills and make plans.  Don't expect other people to do what you expect.  Step it up.

Back when I was helping call the shots with Syndisphere, I was told repeatedly this would happen as it's the similar movement to what happened in that other game, but it's roughly the same shit we pulled too.  This isn't hard to counter, but it does require time and effort if you folks are really that concerned.

Edited by Buorhann
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I, for one, am glad IQ dropped the pretense and pivoted narratives. The hypocrisy is so succulent and rich it will feed generations.

Are you happy now, Kayser? Is this what was supposed to happen when EMC imploded for "the good of the game"?

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