Popular Post hope Posted December 10, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted December 10, 2017 ~this message is NOT sponsored by Advanced Idea Mechanics~ Now, I originally wasn't planning on bringing this up on the forums, but a couple of incidents involving getting banned from the Pantheon server when I questioned what happened (and then unbanned, and threatened with a ban if I brought it up again) made me want to spill some tea for all of y'all. Pantheon tends to have a reputation of having, well, questionable government members to say the least (Madden on the radio show anybody?). But, their amount of whales tends to keep them afloat, and makes them some pretty good money despite their low taxes. Around 12/1, a couple Arrgh nations began a mild assault on Pantheon's upper tier in defense of Warpool, declaring 5 wars. Now, this, I believe, caused Pantheon to send their bank to one of their government members, ValhallaValkyrie (https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=36419) on 12/3, two days after the wars were started. Here is the transaction, listed as "Safekeeping" (https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=36419&display=bank) sent by Akiyama Mio, Olympian of MilCom: Date Sender Receiver Banker Money Food Coal Oil Uranium Lead Iron Bauxite Gasoline Munitions Steel Aluminum 3) 12/03/2017 12:53 pm Pantheon Bank Tsardom of Slavia Grande Mionesie $1,700,000,000.00 5,300,000.00 40,000.00 100,000.00 180,000.00 40,000.00 30,000.00 20,000.00 680,000.00 510,000.00 270,000.00 340,000.00 This transaction was brought to my attention a day after it was withdrawed, and by that time ValhallaValkyrie had deposited most of the refined resources, amounting to 650k gas, 500k mun, 250k steel, and 300k alu. However, they still had all of the raws and money. ValhallaValkyrie then deposited 120m, listed as "Grant Duties," however I assume that was his own money. Now, there was still a large amount of, well, everything on his nation, as I was sent this spy report by someone I will not name: You successfully gathered intelligence about Tsardom of Slavia. Your spies discovered that Tsardom of Slavia has 25 spies, $2,656,042,883.44, 40,017.50 coal, 100,039.34 oil, 179,347.00 uranium, 40,000.00 lead, 30,000.00 iron, 20,834.79 bauxite, 75,849.53 gasoline, 64,922.38 munitions, 58,816.48 steel, 92,602.37 aluminum, and 4,978,630.46 food. Your agents were able to operate undetected. The operation cost you $909,326.67 and 0 of your spies were captured and executed. Save this information; if you leave this page you will be able to see this intelligence report under your espionage notifications. Now, if you are to send the entirety of your bank to a member of your alliance, especially if some of your alliance has been attacked by Arrgh, they need to be fully militarized. However, strangely enough, due to the incompetence of their own membership or their MilCom, Valhalla Valkyrie had no ships, despite having max or near max of everything else. This then lead to him being attacked by one person on 12/7 and two others on 12/8. Even though he then started buying ships, every time he tried to buy some they were destroyed by his attackers. The first person, as well, will most likely be getting the beige. Stay tuned, and may their bank rest in peace. The questions I have been asking myself have been as follows: 1) Were there no allies Pantheon could send their bank to? 2) Why did the member they sent their bank to not have any ships, leaving them open to blockades? Now, it has been brought to my attention that Panth had some sort of incident with t$ regarding their bank during Silent, but that doesn't excuse obvious incompetence, and they're paying the price for it. Panth thinks they're good enough allies with TKR to ask them to do counters for them, yet they couldn't possibly send their bank to them or one of their members? After all this, there are a few things we can learn. 1) Trust your allies. If you can't send your bank to them, why even have them? 2) Make sure the person you're sending the bank to has max military. Especially ships. The reason I make this thread is more to voice concern, and to bring attention to people on how not to handle situations like these. It's okay to make mistakes, as long as you can learn and grow from them. tl;dr - Panths upper tier was hit by Arrgh so they sent their bank to one of their members. This member wasn’t fully militarized and so he was attacked and is now paying the price. This leaves me to question Pantheons decisions, especially their internal affairs and milcom. Especially how their milcom didnt see a possible problem regarding said person having no ships. 11 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Costello Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 That loot sounds juicy thou. 3 Quote I hold the Right to my own Fate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buorhann Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 The lack of military is indeed questionable and I do hope Pantheon learned a lesson in this, but there's some folks helping out. Whether Pantheon trusts their bank only to themselves or allies is there choice. This isn't the first time an alliance botched a bank holding though. Certainly won't be the last. 1 Quote Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micchan Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 The nation can be at zero military, you just need to fortify and use counters 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Buorhann Posted December 10, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted December 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, Micchan said: The nation can be at zero military, you just need to fortify and use counters You're still looting a lot with Ground Attacks at that point. 7 Quote Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Costello Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, Micchan said: The nation can be at zero military, you just need to fortify and use counters Say it again for the people in the back! 1 Quote I hold the Right to my own Fate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hope Posted December 10, 2017 Author Share Posted December 10, 2017 6 minutes ago, Buorhann said: The lack of military is indeed questionable and I do hope Pantheon learned a lesson in this, but there's some folks helping out. Whether Pantheon trusts their bank only to themselves or allies is there choice. This isn't the first time an alliance botched a bank holding though. Certainly won't be the last. The issue I see is that your allies are supposed to be your closest friends. Does Panth not trust TKR to return what they give them even though they've been treatied for a year and a half, or even Rose? Yet, Panth then requests TKR to do their counters for their botched safekeeping? Strange. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakai Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 (edited) Edited December 10, 2017 by Optima 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buorhann Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 17 minutes ago, Hope said: The issue I see is that your allies are supposed to be your closest friends. Does Panth not trust TKR to return what they give them even though they've been treatied for a year and a half, or even Rose? Yet, Panth then requests TKR to do their counters for their botched safekeeping? Strange. I mean, sure, but is it worthy to be condemned for? Not in my opinion. They can do with their resources as they see fit. Quote Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micchan Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 23 minutes ago, Buorhann said: You're still looting a lot with Ground Attacks at that point. Sure having full military is better 25 minutes ago, Hope said: The issue I see is that your allies are supposed to be your closest friends. Does Panth not trust TKR to return what they give them even though they've been treatied for a year and a half, or even Rose? Yet, Panth then requests TKR to do their counters for their botched safekeeping? Strange. Nah they trust us, they probably just thought it was enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordship Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 4 hours ago, Hope said: The issue I see is that your allies are supposed to be your closest friends. Does Panth not trust TKR to return what they give them even though they've been treatied for a year and a half, or even Rose? Yet, Panth then requests TKR to do their counters for their botched safekeeping? Strange. Pantheon didn't request counters, I sent them in as soon as I saw what was happening. Just because they didn't send us their whole bank doesn't mean they don't trust us Quote Life before Death. Strength before Weakness. Journey before Destination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dio Brando Posted December 10, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted December 10, 2017 (edited) I think it’s more the principle of reliance on one’s self than a lack of trust in their allies. Pantheon has made a mistake which can be divided into three phases: 1. The lack of proper minimum military requirements and/or enforcement of this policy 2. The admission of someone like ValhallaValkyrie into government 3. Failure to send the bank to a proper depository 1: While I am sure Pantheon has MMR in regards to planes/ground, they apparently do not have an MMR set for ships, and/or are not sufficiently enforcing this policy sonar to prevent mishaps like these. 2: ValhallaValkyrie is one of those people who VM’d in Silent, and would optimally be disqualified from government positions, especially high government. 3: Valkyrie did not possess a sufficient, well balanced military. For two, the nation has little war exp. For three, since Pantheons upper tier was being raided, it would have made sense to send the bank to one of their allies rather than a nation that could be targeted easily. (TKR would have been optimal if they allowed it) Having said that, kudos to both TKR and TCW to have had sent counters in without any prior request, counters that have by this point in time effectively saved Pantheons bank from being beiged in as great of an amount as it would have been. Edited December 10, 2017 by Anathema 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
丂ħ̧i̧₣ɫ̵γ͘ ̶™ Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Shifty, now Arrgh, why do we keep Pantheon around again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayor Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 close, but no cigar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordship Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 55 minutes ago, Anathema said: I think it’s more the principle of reliance on one’s self than a lack of trust in their allies. Pantheon has made a mistake which can be divided into three phases: 1. The lack of proper minimum military requirements and/or enforcement of this policy 2. The admission of someone like ValhallaValkyrie into government 3. Failure to send the bank to a proper depository 1: While I am sure Pantheon has MMR in regards to planes/ground, they apparently do not have an MMR set for ships, and/or are not sufficiently enforcing this policy sonar to prevent mishaps like these. 2: ValhallaValkyrie is one of those people who VM’d in Silent, and would optimally be disqualified from government positions, especially high government. 3: Valkyrie did not possess a sufficient, well balanced military. For two, the nation has little war exp. For three, since Pantheons upper tier was being raided, it would have made sense to send the bank to one of their allies rather than a nation that could be targeted easily. (TKR would have been optimal if they allowed it) Having said that, kudos to both TKR and TCW to have had sent counters in without any prior request, counters that have by this point in time effectively saved Pantheons bank from being beiged in as great of an amount as it would have been. Kudos to Guardian as well, wouldn't have worked without them helping out. 4 1 Quote Life before Death. Strength before Weakness. Journey before Destination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buorhann Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 1 hour ago, ϟħ̧i̧ᖷɫ̵γ͘ ̶ϟɫΓåπ҉გ℥̨Γ said: Shifty, now Arrgh, why do we keep Pantheon around again? From my experience with Pantheon, they were willing to fight at our request/need. Even if there were a few who VM'd. Quote Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critters Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 9 hours ago, Buorhann said: From my experience with Pantheon, they were willing to fight at our request/need. Even if there were a few who VM'd. Your experience was different from mine when I was in t$ then....... Quote The Redneck Caliphate of Forrest's Critters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Yui Posted December 11, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted December 11, 2017 Too many people and thoughts to reply to all at once but yes, clearly some mistakes were made here and we won't intend to do that again in hurry. As for not trusting allies, that wasn't the case here. We just made a choice that turned out not so good. And as for the comments about wars and stuff, I don't want to get into a big debate about some thing that is now floating away in the wind but we always try to honour our allies and do what is best for everyone. We might not have a perfect track record on all things but anyone who has been around longer than five minutes with me as leader would know that my decisions are carefully considered about how it affects all involved and particularly our friends and allies and what we can do to help them. I would disagree with Critter's comment, yes... we might have had some VMs, most alliances do at some point but we were never unwilling to honour our treaties, especially when agreements have (or had) already been made. I won't go into a long description about that but people will know what I mean (hopefully). Of course, there's always things to think about and part of being in charge is to be willing to accept that something didn't quite work out and we acknowledge that. It's nice to know that we have friends and allies willing to help. I wasn't even online when this all kicked off (first night out for a while) but they jumped into action anyway and if we were some horrible alliance that everyone dislikes (hate is a bit too strong), I doubt we'd have got as many people to help. So, thank you to the people who helped, that stuck with us and thank you to the people who supported me when I took over leadership literally overnight. And hopefully you'll be able to drop round ours for tea and cake soon. ~ Yui 7 Quote Dorky Weeb One Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Thrax Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 When Critters was in t$, Fist was in charge. I think that's probably where the disconnect is. In fairness to him, it's something we had a lot of headaches with. However, that was then and this is now. I mean, we just hit Pantheon a couple weeks ago, and Yui came out to beat on us personally. Anyone who doubts Pantheon's willingness to back their members or allies up is probably not paying attention. 5 Quote Slaughter the shits of the world. They poison the air you breathe. ~ William S. Burroughs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seabasstion Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 just have him 'bet' it all away to a safer place using the baseball loophole i informed sheepy around 2 years ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buorhann Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 13 hours ago, seabasstion said: just have him 'bet' it all away to a safer place using the baseball loophole i informed sheepy around 2 years ago That still exists? Quote Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dio Brando Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 Fairly certain that was removed some time ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seabasstion Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 last i checked it was still there. anyone able to blockade me to test? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hope Posted January 3, 2018 Author Share Posted January 3, 2018 (edited) Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=3073 https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=3073&display=bank https://imgur.com/a/PkEDb Your spies discovered that Thundera has 60 spies, $895,842,451.40, 226,505.90 coal, 0.00 oil, 117,854.17 uranium, 0.00 lead, 68,660.44 iron, 0.00 bauxite, 221,955.84 gasoline, 298,084.67 munitions, 434,371.93 steel, 255,856.78 aluminum, and 247,171.85 food. Edited January 3, 2018 by Hope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dio Brando Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 4 hours ago, Hope said: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=3073 https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=3073&display=bank https://imgur.com/a/PkEDb Your spies discovered that Thundera has 60 spies, $895,842,451.40, 226,505.90 coal, 0.00 oil, 117,854.17 uranium, 0.00 lead, 68,660.44 iron, 0.00 bauxite, 221,955.84 gasoline, 298,084.67 munitions, 434,371.93 steel, 255,856.78 aluminum, and 247,171.85 food. That isn’t the bank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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