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Spy Recruitment


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Should spy recruitment be buffed?  

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  1. 1. Should the number of spies you can recruit per day go from 2 to 5 and to 6 for the IA project?



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I'm of the opinion that if someone is targeting you with spies, once they've assassinated all of your spies it's difficult to come back from that. My suggestion is that we raise the number of spies you can recruit per day from 2 to 5, and with the Intelligence Agency project, 6.

That would mean it would take 10 days to get full spies at 5/day, and 10 days to get full spies at 6/day with the IA project. IA would still have the advantage of faster recruitment, a higher cap, and being able to execute 2 spy operations per day.

I just want to do a quick poll and get some feedback about this possible change. Please, let me know what you think.

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I agree with 4/6 for the two but I think this should include the killing of spys.  I think max 10 should be killed in an op.  And more average to 6 to make it more realistic and more challenging to both spiers and those getting spies killed 

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What danger is left in a possible failed espionage operation if I can just replace all of the spies I've lost right away? The whole risk would be gone. And what is the point in assassinating spies if they also can be replaced just like that? I think a different solution to this problem that starts at the number of spies being killed in an attack or a failed operation would be better instead of just increasing the number of spies you can buy.

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The people who complain about spies being hard to retrain are more often than not those who use spies defensively to protect their nukes.

Their main argument is that all other troop types, like tanks, planes, ships etc can be retrained in 5-6 days.

What they carefully forget to mention is that tanks, planes, ships, and soldiers can be decimated to zero in a few days as well. However, take the people like Fraggle and Apeman who have over 100 nukes. Even with the current spy system, and even if they have zero spies at the beginning, only 2.5 of their nukes would be killed per day: In order to make sabotage nukes attack likely to succeed, you need to clean out the spies every other day since they will retrain 3 every day. It would take 100/2.5 = 40 days to destroy all the nukes under the best of circumstances.

TL;DR: If you are going to boost spy defense, you also need to somehow boost spy offense. Else, you could just sack the spy system altogether, as it is only good for nuke shenanigans.

Edited by Kemal Ergenekon
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I agree with kemal on the point that military units can be wiped out easily within a few days. If I had only 20, you could easily wipe them out in less than 5 if I'm also throwing. The point is I have 100. I pay for the upkeep daily, and there is no cap on total nukes. I bought them right? Even with 100 nukes and me throwing 8 per day and you spying 2.5 daily I can throw for 10 days roughly including the daily buy. Ill be out of infra way before then. My only question is why are you worried about nukes if you are a decent human? Never nuked a person who didn't deserve it. 

 

Sheepy great game bud. Fix this little issue with either spy daily buys or kill limits. Either way

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6830 nations
9 types of spy operations

*Defends current spy system solely on the basis of two nations and one type of spy operation.*

Dynamic.

More kids looking for an easy out in a game. If you want a trophy for participating, you should try a different game.

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You could also just seriously cut the number of spies that can be killed at once. That way if 3 people assassinate your spies at once, you lose maybe 8 instead of all 50 in a single day.

I don't know how this would work but maybe there's a way to trade a spy op for recruiting an extra spy. So if you have the CIA you could do 2 ops and recruit 3 spies, 1 op and 4 spies, or no ops and 5 spies.

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Wouldn't 2 to 4, or 6 with an IA project make more sense?

 

 

17 hours ago, Gabranth said:

Sure, but it is still only a temp fix. Perhaps if you wanted to rework the mechanic it would be cool to have particular traits on your spies when you hire them, and you could train them with money to upgrade their traits and give them levels as well so the more they do spy operations the more effective they become. Almost like a baseball team but with spies. With this it would be somewhat balanced when defending against spy ops too, it makes it so the people who invest time and effort into their spy squad are can defend from ops and it's actually balanced.

idk fam are the spies gonna retire on me like the baseball players do, I don't think I can go through that again

3 minutes ago, Brooklyn666 said:

You could also just seriously cut the number of spies that can be killed at once. That way if 3 people assassinate your spies at once, you lose maybe 8 instead of all 50 in a single day.

I don't know how this would work but maybe there's a way to trade a spy op for recruiting an extra spy. So if you have the CIA you could do 2 ops and recruit 3 spies, 1 op and 4 spies, or no ops and 5 spies.

Spy casualties don't need a nerf. Arcane should get a buff tho.

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42 minutes ago, Apeman said:

I agree with kemal on the point that military units can be wiped out easily within a few days. If I had only 20, you could easily wipe them out in less than 5 if I'm also throwing. The point is I have 100. I pay for the upkeep daily, and there is no cap on total nukes. I bought them right? Even with 100 nukes and me throwing 8 per day and you spying 2.5 daily I can throw for 10 days roughly including the daily buy. Ill be out of infra way before then. My only question is why are you worried about nukes if you are a decent human? Never nuked a person who didn't deserve it. 

 

Sheepy great game bud. Fix this little issue with either spy daily buys or kill limits. Either way

Yes, you have 100. But we cannot have 100000 tanks or 100000 planes now, can we?

If Sheepy increases the cap to the numbers described, he should also play around with the probability of "Sabotage Nukes" operation. Else it makes spies even less useful than they are now.

The fact that you are annoyed by the spy system is proof that it works. If you never received any spy attacks, then it would be a useless game feature. If spies are ineffective against nukes, you can just remove all the pretension that it is intended to be useful, and take it out of the game.

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With spying nukes or missiles.  I think it should be capped at 2 destruction nukes per 100% successful op.  It's not taking out 8 nukes and being overly strong.  But tough enough to be a challenge to those using nukes.  The same for missiles.  

 

But the topic was spy recruiting.  So I say it sits at the 4/6 idea.  Yes ik I suggested something else.  I change my mind and agree to a better idea.  

 

But a side issue more important is spy on spy ops.  To kill 18 spies in 1 shot is a bit rough.  Maybe 8 should be the max. Just an idea 

I hold the Right to my own Fate

 

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30 minutes ago, Johnny Costello said:

With spying nukes or missiles.  I think it should be capped at 2 destruction nukes per 100% successful op.  It's not taking out 8 nukes and being overly strong.  But tough enough to be a challenge to those using nukes.  The same for missiles.  

You're suggesting two nukes should be able to be spied away per spy op and six nukes a day?

It's nearly impossible enough to spy away one nuke in the real world, but six a day? Perhaps you meant something else?

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2 hours ago, Kemal Ergenekon said:

The people who complain about spies being hard to retrain are more often than not those who use spies defensively to protect their nukes.

Their main argument is that all other troop types, like tanks, planes, ships etc can be retrained in 5-6 days.

What they carefully forget to mention is that tanks, planes, ships, and soldiers can be decimated to zero in a few days as well. However, take the people like Fraggle and Apeman who have over 100 nukes. Even with the current spy system, and even if they have zero spies at the beginning, only 2.5 of their nukes would be killed per day: In order to make sabotage nukes attack likely to succeed, you need to clean out the spies every other day since they will retrain 3 every day. It would take 100/2.5 = 40 days to destroy all the nukes under the best of circumstances.

TL;DR: If you are going to boost spy defense, you also need to somehow boost spy offense. Else, you could just sack the spy system altogether, as it is only good for nuke shenanigans.

This basically. Of course people are going to overwhelmingly vote in favor of changes that make the game easier for them.

Although I don't agree with your assessment that spies are for nukes only. With proper organization they can be used well in conventional warfare also.

9 minutes ago, James II said:

You're suggesting two nukes should be able to be spied away per spy op and six nukes a day?

It's nearly impossible enough to spy away one nuke in the real world, but six a day? Perhaps you meant something else?

I don't think you should be using the real world as a metric for the balance of nukes.

 

45 minutes ago, Johnny Costello said:

With spying nukes or missiles.  I think it should be capped at 2 destruction nukes per 100% successful op.  It's not taking out 8 nukes and being overly strong.  But tough enough to be a challenge to those using nukes.  The same for missiles.  

 

But the topic was spy recruiting.  So I say it sits at the 4/6 idea.  Yes ik I suggested something else.  I change my mind and agree to a better idea.  

 

But a side issue more important is spy on spy ops.  To kill 18 spies in 1 shot is a bit rough.  Maybe 8 should be the max. Just an idea 

Its fine how it is now.

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1 hour ago, Sketchy said:

This basically. Of course people are going to overwhelmingly vote in favor of changes that make the game easier for them.

 

I don't think you should be using the real world as a metric for the balance of nukes.

1)Easy for whom? There is a certain balance that ought to be sought.

All the power should not lie with the offender nor should it rest with the defender.

In the case of spying, it is extremely easy for the offender. In one day all spies can be wiped out, the base odds are incredibly in the favor of the attacker. Initially the defender of a spy op has some power, but very little. After the first day of assassinations, it becomes improbable for the defender to ever regain control of the spy situation for an indefeintite amount of time, that is until the attacker decides they don't want to attack anymore.

I do agree people want an easy way out, that's why you have the newbie zealots who want to keep the balance of spy ops in their favor.

If offensive spy ops are made harder, it is made harder for everyone. Your argument's logic does not follow.

People wanting balance in a system is not the same as people wanting an 'easier game.'  Those arguing against balance have an exclusive vestment in the current system. That's why the number of people for it are so small.

The position you've taken makes it easier for a select few, and a very unbalanced system that not only hurts the overall quality of the game, but your allies in WTF as well.

2)Certainly.

Although, I don't find it unreasonable for a certain displacement from real world to be at a level of absurdity. Waltzing into nuclear silos and blowing 3 nukes up every day for 40 days is beyond the bounds of plausibility.

Edited by James II
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