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Arrgh! Recognition of Hostilities


Ripper
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1 minute ago, Buorhann said:

I'm not acting like that at all.  I just find it sad that they required help with nearly 3 to 1 odds already.  It's that simple.

they never "required" help. they asked for help with CF's upper tier and they were given help. if anything you should be asked KT and tTO why they felt the need to "dogpile" on an alliance Arrgh was already warring.

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7 minutes ago, Spaceman Thrax said:

particularly by people who had done so much railing against treaty consolidation.

Huh, that's actually a very interesting perspective.  I hadn't even considered that, haha.

Edited by Buorhann
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Just now, Buorhann said:

 

That's due to a few reasons.  1) The war was already over when it began, 2) Slots were hard to find, 3) The war ended early.

Again, difference of reasons.

Arrgh gang banged CF because of a raid.

"Papers, please" occurred because of many different reasons depending on the alliance you ask.  Even Prefontaine and other members admitted that they knew the ass kicking as coming eventually.

Pfff, only difference you said there is that Pre knew politics.

Any decent alliance would know that messing with Arrgh has consiquences. And we talked with CF and they admited they didn't know that their member wanted to raid an Arrgjh member for treasure. Otherwise they'd never aprove it.

 

I might be drunk, but I can see you trying to derail this whole topic to make us look bad and make you look like some Phoenix Wright bs.

Arrgh gangbanged an alliance that attacked it? Your point is? We roll people for less than that. This time arround we were pressed by peopel with higer tier, and I didn't feel like wasting time and effort on pointless war when I can call in allys I cultivated for so long.

This also serves to show that even tough we are paperless, it doesn't mean we're helpless. Mess with paperless and get destroyed. Message couldn't have been clearer.

And while we're at Papers please, yes it had different reasons, you were bored, Paragone was ParaGONE, you hand noone else in entire game that chould begin to challenge you, and we decided not bend to your politics. Again, get off your high horse. You dare preach about "sins" we're commiting, just becasuse we don't do it the way you do it, or becaseu we do it against your people instead against your enemys.

And this is my last retort to you here, no need to give you more attention that I already have, and knowing my drunk self I'll regret this tommorow.

 

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Just now, Hope said:

they never "required" help. they asked for help with CF's upper tier and they were given help. if anything you should be asked KT and tTO why they felt the need to "dogpile" on an alliance Arrgh was already warring.

>they never "required" help

>they "asked" for help

>they were "given" help

Huh.

Just now, DragonK said:

I might be drunk, but I can see you trying to derail this whole topic to make us look bad and make you look like some Phoenix Wright bs.

Your post is just full of wrong speculation.  I don't have to make you look bad, actions like this already do it.

>"Papers, please" happened because EasyMode sphere were bored

Uh, nope.  Try again.

 

Again, I could care less that Arrgh hit/swamped CF.  The request of assistance is what was hilarious.

>we talked with CF and they didn't know, they wouldn't have approved it

Man, this is just too easy.

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It is a dogpile, just because the war didn't go longer, doesn't detract from that fact.  You could very easily updeclare up nations that had zero, or near zero military, to keep them pinned down.  You didn't exercise that, but that doesn't take away the fact that it could (And would be done, considering Arrgh has done this before and aren't oblivious to this fact).  The war ended too soon before you got to that point.

The request of assistance only secured the war in your hands completely to speed up the diplomatic talks, which should've happened before then (By DragonK's admittance, CF wasn't aware of what was going on) - but I'm not even faulting Arrgh's FA on that part because that's just how they're going to handle situations (Like we did in Mensa for awhile).

 

The fact was you couldn't handle CF, which is just amusing as hell considering the numbers and options available before requesting help.

 

Sidenote:  If you're going to bust out the argument that many people weren't ready for war, or didn't have fully built military (Which would've raised their score) - then that just shows gross incompetence.

Sidenote #2: I just find it even more amusing, thanks to Thrax pointing it out, that Arrgh/KT/tTO ganged up on a newly paperless alliance.  Goes right up against the argument that Arrgh members have been spewing out for a few years.

Edited by Buorhann
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5 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

It is a dogpile, just because the war didn't go longer, doesn't detract from that fact.  You could very easily updeclare up nations that had zero, or near zero military, to keep them pinned down.  You didn't exercise that, but that doesn't take away the fact that it could (And would be done, considering Arrgh has done this before and aren't oblivious to this fact).  The war ended too soon before you got to that point.

The request of assistance only secured the war in your hands completely to speed up the diplomatic talks, which should've happened before then (By DragonK's admittance, CF wasn't aware of what was going on) - but I'm not even faulting Arrgh's FA on that part because that's just how they're going to handle situations (Like we did in Mensa for awhile).

 

The fact was you couldn't handle CF, which is just amusing as hell considering the numbers and options available before requesting help.

 

Sidenote:  If you're going to bust out the argument that many people weren't ready for war, or didn't have fully built military (Which would've raised their score) - then that just shows gross incompetence.

Sidenote #2: I just find it even more amusing, thanks to Thrax pointing it out, that Arrgh/KT/tTO ganged up on a newly paperless alliance.  Goes right up against the argument that Arrgh members have been spewing out for a few years.

I don't think Arrgh is required to be nice to every single paperless alliance in the game. Do I think Arrgh should've attacked a paperless alliance? No. But in the end, Arrgh isn't required to be passive towards every paperless alliance and be nice with them. They can and will do what they want, as long as they find it profitable.

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Again, that wasn't my point.  Again, Arrgh's initial reaction to CF I don't fault them for.  Again, the request for assistance is what I find laughable.

Let's put another spin on this though - would KT/tTO assisted Arrgh if Syndicate still held paper ties to CF?  Would Arrgh reply as they did against CF?  I doubt it.  Because all that newly built military/infra would suddenly get zeroed out again and they'll be right back in the quagmire of 1 ship raids.  And KT/tTO wouldn't want to risk a major war with Syndisphere alliances until they had more support for it.

Over a single raid.

But that's just speculation, who knows what would've happened because CF is now paperless, therefore nobody is obligated to defend them.

Edited by Buorhann
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They were heavily militarized and yes, we had already surpassed them in NS despite the fact that we were 5 to 9 and then 6 to 10 on the upper tier till anyone from another alliance joined. It's currently 14 v 11 on the upper tier (add the city count of the 14 and the 11) - how that's a dogpile is beyond me...

If people don't even know what's going on from the start they simply shouldn't be talking, because I've been in this from the get go and I've crunched the numbers several times.

Edited by Insert Name Here
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14 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

Again, that wasn't my point.  Again, Arrgh's initial reaction to CF I don't fault them for.  Again, the request for assistance is what I find laughable.

Let's put another spin on this though - would KT/tTO assisted Arrgh if Syndicate still held paper ties to CF?  Would Arrgh reply as they did against CF?  I doubt it.  Because all that newly built military/infra would suddenly get zeroed out again and they'll be right back in the quagmire of 1 ship raids.  And KT/tTO wouldn't want to risk a major war with Syndisphere alliances until they had more support for it.

Over a single raid.

But that's just speculation, who knows what would've happened because CF is now paperless, therefore nobody is obligated to defend them.

Nothing will happen even then.. What's going on here is a case where Arrgh Is treating aggression maturedly and I bait you would do the same. So stop talking!

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Nah Buorhann, most of our members were out of range (game mechanics and whatnot). As for the other alliances, I'm not gov so I'm not in a position to give you an informed opinion.

Point is, saying it's a dogpile is ridiculous. The lower tier would always be ours and then it's 14 v 11. We had already surpassed them in NS while it was 5 v 9 / 6 v 10. Not gonna waste time with the city count, mil and NS. But yes, till the 8 people from other alliances showed up, we had a considerable disadvantage in everything regarding the upper tier, which is where almost all the actions is. Those are the numbers.

Edited by Insert Name Here
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21 minutes ago, Gabranth said:

Not like Mensa can talk about over-retaliation over raids. I remember the Lordaeron-Mensa war wasn't even over official members - it was over applicants. Albeit, there were more raids, but they were on members that might as well be considered dead at the time anyway. As for the statement that 'this was over a single raid', well, yeah it was. Story goes that Arrgh retaliated against the single CF nation that wanted to steal the treasure, and then CF countered those nations - one could argue that the over-retaliation was in CF's countering of Arrgh nations. At that point, Arrgh was well within their rights to declare war. 

 

No, no, let's talk about that.  Should I reference every other single raider where I've approached people and handled it diplomatically?  Or that time when two members of Lordaeron literally admitted that Kastor gave them permission to raid Mensa?

If Mensa treated this as Arrgh did, we'd be in a perpetual global war constantly.

However, AGAIN (God damn, how many times do I need to repeat this you lack of reading comprehension chimps), the retaliation from Arrgh I am not arguing about.  The request for assistance is what I found completely silly.

Did Mensa request assistance against Lordaeron despite Lordaeron outnumbering Mensa or even having some members out of reach? No.

41 minutes ago, Insert Name Here said:

Nah Buorhann, most of our members were out of range (game mechanics and whatnot). As for the other alliances, I'm not gov so I'm not in a position to give you an informed opinion.

Point is, saying it's a dogpile is ridiculous. The lower tier would always be ours and then it's 14 v 11. We had already surpassed them in NS while it was 5 v 9 / 6 v 10. Not gonna waste time with the city count, mil and NS. But yes, till the 8 people from other alliances showed up, we had a considerable disadvantage in everything regarding the upper tier, which is where almost all the actions is. Those are the numbers.

Seriously?  It was a dogpile, just because you only had a few select members fight, doesn't take away from that fact.  Arrgh could've handled it just fine by themselves, but chose not to because "effort" I would presume.

Edited by Buorhann
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See Buorhann, you are right.

I couldn't handle more wars.

I already had 4 offensive wars and a defensive one with CF and...

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you were my 5th offensive war. It was impossible to declare more...

All the other engaged captains had also 3-4 wars going on.

I am so sorry that we didn't overstrech ourselves more and decided to not risk the whole operation and get 3 extra hits from other nations joining us.

This is really sad. You are right.

P.S. If you are going to troll, do it with more skill.

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Oh boy, once again Ripper shows his brilliance.  You're better off arguing against people who whine to you for not properly drawing Polandball comics.

So you had 4 offensive wars against CF and only 1 defensive war, but you still felt the need to get tTO and KT in.  Got it.

(Just FYI, you're doing me a favor there, so thanks)

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>over-retaliation against Lordaeron

Did you also literally admit publicly that you were one of the folks who admitted to having permission on raiding Mensa?  And you're saying that we over-retaliated/reacted?  Really?  Dude, you're a moron with continuing to try and compare the two situations.

>Arrgh didn't cover every CF tier

Consistently we have shown how updeclares can work effectively.  Even Arrgh did this in the past.  So don't tell me it's not possible now.  How are people still this bad?  No idea.

------------------------------------------------------

08/21 12:51am An unknown nation has executed an espionage operation against your country. They successfully assassinated spies in your nation. 11 of your spies were killed.

08/21 12:51am Ripper of Graveland has executed an espionage operation to assassinate spies in your country. They successfully assassinated spies in your nation. 14 of your spies were killed.

 

A tad butthurt Ripper?

Edited by Buorhann
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This topic has taught me that KT and tTO are not only opportunistic but afraid of risk and Arrgh! can't take on a raid in stride after months of literally raiding everyone.

 

gg CF y'all are still looking good in my book despite the unfortunate circumstances. 

Edit: I know blue balls hurt but this is literally the opposite of a fun war. You guys are just kinda pathetic. 

Edited by Wilhelm the Demented
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One must imagine Sisyphus happy.

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15 minutes ago, Gabranth said:

Yeah, I was one of them. 

No, because Mensa also had a score advantage - twice that of Lordaeron. The average city count was higher, higher military numbers, higher everything except member count, and even then the disparity was negligible since all of Mensa's members were so well equipped. In knowing this, you knew Lordaeron would be an easy roll and you knew that it would be a popular move to roll Lordaeron because everyone hates Kastor. Look, I don't blame you for doing so, but you can't act all high and mighty about over-retaliation when you have done nearly the exact same thing. If anything, Arrgh was more reasonable as it actually countered first before declaring war. If Mensa did the same, I would guarantee that raids would stop. Before anyone says "oh, Mensa said on the forums that they would roll anyone who attacked applicants xd", that's still hardly an excuse to roll an entire alliance over some slight on applicants. If Mensa wanted to act reasonably as any other alliance would, then they would simply counter the raiders, not the alliance. But as we all well know, Mensa is not known for acting as other alliances would. I suppose it would be futile to try and hold them to the same standard as everyone though, given their war record. 

No, because Mensa already had all of Lordaeron covered, more or less. Arrgh did not cover every CF tier, so they asked for help for some, and paid for it for others. There is no shame in asking for help when you need it. 

Why is it silly? If Arrgh cannot effectively tackle all tiers, then why should it cripple itself and not ask for help? 

Memories <3 lmao

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Each of us bears his own Hell - Virgil

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39 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

Seriously?  It was a dogpile, just because you only had a few select members fight, doesn't take away from that fact.  Arrgh could've handled it just fine by themselves, but chose not to because "effort" I would presume.

 

If by "select" you mean the only Arrgh members we could get in range to fight then yes, you're absolutely right. We could maybe have handled CF on our own, I'm not sure. But 14 to 11 isn't a dogpile anywhere. Their lower tier would always get rolled and this war has pretty much been happening in the upper tier, where we started with a considerable disadvantage and were still able to pass CF in NS, even before the 8 upper tier people from other alliances came in. 

As for the politics surrounding this war, I know nothing and couldn't care less. I joined Arrgh partly to get away from Orbis's cancerous politics and I don't want to get involved in that. As for the military aspect of the war, yes, I've been on top of things from the start and I've crunched the numbers several times.

If you want to call this a dogpile, fine by me. I like you and have no interest in butting heads with you (or anyone else for that matter).

Edited by Insert Name Here
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CF could have beat us back if they had put just a smidgen of effort into actually fighting us but I guess having people complain on their behalf is a lot easier. The 'war' was going on for a full 24 hours before anyone from KT or TTO joined in, and in that time CF declared a whopping 4 wars. We were outnumbered that whole time, and CF neglected to press their advantage.

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Edited by Bluebear
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4 hours ago, DragonK said:

 

This also serves to show that even tough we are paperless, it doesn't mean we're helpless. Mess with paperless and get destroyed. Message couldn't have been clearer.

 

I think there needs to be more appreciation for this part of the staying woke 

I hold the Right to my own Fate

 

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8 hours ago, Buorhann said:

I am well aware of how war mechanics work, I organized a lot of it for our sphere during the past wars.  It's pathetic that you required help from tTO and KT, and I have no idea why people keep citing "We have too many low score members".  It's like nobody learns how to updeclare properly (Like how and when).

"Papers, please" occurred for a variety of reasons.

Your reasoning here with Arrgh gang-banging CF is literally because of a single raid.  You couldn't handle CF it seems even when you got the jump on the majority of their members.

 

You do you, but that's just a sad display after everybody bought into your whole "Pirate Insurance" post so that you guys could rebuild back up to relevancy.

I'm not so sure about your knowledge of up-declaring. I have a memory of Mensa waiting a like week for backup while their top nations were sitting mostly idle and could easily outnumber their opponents. I don't remember exactly what war it was but it was probably a full year ago or more. 

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