Caecus Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 Any thoughts? Quote It's a useful mental exercise. Through the years, many thinkers have been fascinated by it. But I don't enjoy playing. It was a game that was born during a brutal age when life counted for little. Everyone believed that some people were worth more than others. Kings. Pawns. I don't think that anyone is worth more than anyone else. Chess is just a game. Real people are not pieces. You can't assign more value to some of them and not others. Not to me. Not to anyone. People are not a thing that you can sacrifice. The lesson is, if anyone who looks on to the world as if it was a game of chess, deserves to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 Hmm Transgenders wanted to become a part of the US military. Isn't the US military commit basically crimes in every country they invaded? I see that transgenders wants equality when dropping bombs on innocents or torturing people. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apeman Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 A unit will fight best when they jive and work as a team. I could see how a Transgender person in their batallion might throw that off. People are allowed to mistrust or not like whomever they want. As tolerance is forced down our throats this won't be an issue anymore. Romans promoted homosexuality but just during the past century we have witnessed homosexuality being banned in the military. This also shall pass. Personal thoughts....will a dude wearing a dress scare people more than the rocket launcher they are carrying? Where will it stop? Will people who identify as a cat or tree be allowed in? Will the bullet still pierce their bark or fur? !@#$ yeah it will This is trump people...he gonna do whatever he wants no matter how much the few scream. All this law does is make draft Dodgers work for their hiding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caecus Posted July 27, 2017 Author Share Posted July 27, 2017 51 minutes ago, August said: Hmm Transgenders wanted to become a part of the US military. Isn't the US military commit basically crimes in every country they invaded? I see that transgenders wants equality when dropping bombs on innocents or torturing people. To be entirely fair, hasn't every military basically committed crimes in every country they invaded? Also, equality FTW. The world has become a more progressive place when we can all have the equal opportunity to bomb foreigners. +1 Quote It's a useful mental exercise. Through the years, many thinkers have been fascinated by it. But I don't enjoy playing. It was a game that was born during a brutal age when life counted for little. Everyone believed that some people were worth more than others. Kings. Pawns. I don't think that anyone is worth more than anyone else. Chess is just a game. Real people are not pieces. You can't assign more value to some of them and not others. Not to me. Not to anyone. People are not a thing that you can sacrifice. The lesson is, if anyone who looks on to the world as if it was a game of chess, deserves to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 33 minutes ago, Caecus said: military basically committed crimes in every country they invaded? Basically the armed forces itself. Also the American left are protesting the banning of transgenders in the US military at the same time during G.W Bush is against the military. ☺ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozalia Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 A lot of excuses I hear on this don't actually logically work. The strength issue for example is completely wrong when it comes to Transsexuals. Female-to-Male and Male-to-Female are both physically stronger groups than women who are currently allowed. So if you want them gone you better want women gone too/first to make sense. Perhaps the unique medical costs can be an issue? Then... don't provide those ones and just give them the treatment everybody else gets? It is a pretty small issue, I'd be more worried over Muslim Chaplains then I would this. That is my defense of Transsexuals anyway. "Transgender" snowflakes who think they're non-binary or some other made up gender being banned is oh well to me. If they can't even decide what gender they are then they seem obviously confused, and confusion doesn't really go well in the military. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WISD0MTREE Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 2 hours ago, Apeman said: Will people who identify as a cat or tree be allowed in? Will the bullet still pierce their bark or fur? They teach soldiers to use trees as cover, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComradeMilton Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 7 hours ago, Apeman said: A unit will fight best when they jive and work as a team. I could see how a Transgender person in their batallion might throw that off. People are allowed to mistrust or not like whomever they want. Governmental bodies do not. Trump's basically discriminating against others. As tolerance is forced down our throats this won't be an issue anymore. Romans promoted homosexuality but just during the past century we have witnessed homosexuality being banned in the military. This also shall pass. That's adorable; no, that's not going to change. Personal thoughts....will a dude wearing a dress scare people more than the rocket launcher they are carrying? Where will it stop? Will people who identify as a cat or tree be allowed in? Will the bullet still pierce their bark or fur? !@#$ yeah it will Remember all the slippery slope arguments homophobic people had as reasons to not permit gay people to marry? Since it's now been legal for more than a year could you cite where the slope is? Did you find evidence of someone marrying a rock or car or something that would slope as a result? This is trump people...he gonna do whatever he wants no matter how much the few scream. Are you cool if Trump prevents Latinos and blacks from enlisting? They may affect unit "jiving" so I assume since equal protection is required by the Consitution I guess they're going to have to leave too to avoid tolerance getting shoved into your face? All this law does is make draft Dodgers work for their hiding.(We don't have a draft if you're confused.) It's not really up to him. He can barely get a single thing through judicial review. This is definitely Trump: absolute no governmental experience so treats it as a business, which just doesn't work. 6 hours ago, August said: Basically the armed forces itself. Also the American left are protesting the banning of transgenders in the US military at the same time during G.W Bush is against the military. ☺ Most of W's issue is an inability to travel internationally since there a number of countries willing to arrest him and most of his senior officials for war crimes and shipping them to the Hague for trial. 5 hours ago, Rozalia said: A lot of excuses I hear on this don't actually logically work. The strength issue for example is completely wrong when it comes to Transsexuals. Female-to-Male and Male-to-Female are both physically stronger groups than women who are currently allowed. So if you want them gone you better want women gone too/first to make sense. Perhaps the unique medical costs can be an issue? Then... don't provide those ones and just give them the treatment everybody else gets? It is a pretty small issue, I'd be more worried over Muslim Chaplains then I would this. Do we not already have Muslim chaplains? Catholics seem to accept protestant chaplains even though they're not valid for Catholic religious ceremony. That is my defense of Transsexuals anyway. "Transgender" snowflakes who think they're non-binary or some other made up gender being banned is oh well to me. If they can't even decide what gender they are then they seem obviously confused, and confusion doesn't really go well in the military. Why is it any of your concern what they define themselves as or whatever? Does that have any effect on you at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozalia Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 There are Muslim chaplains already yes. Different sect == different religion apparently, add religion to the list of many things you don't understand. If someone believes themselves to be a different gender then lovely, make the change. If you can't or said gender is some make believe one you can't physically change yourself to then... oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lelouch Vi Britannia Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 1 minute ago, Rozalia said: There are Muslim chaplains already yes. Different sect == different religion apparently, add religion to the list of many things you don't understand. If someone believes themselves to be a different gender then lovely, make the change. If you can't or said gender is some make believe one you can't physically change yourself to then... oh well. I felt like a third person mention of yourself was due there... Quote Ex-Archduke of Defence for BK 3 minutes ago, Buorhann said: @Lelouch Vi Britannia - BK needs you, but they really don't deserve you. Thanks for the dankness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apeman Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 Usually governors don't fight in wars so realistically it does come down to the soldiers trust issues or rights. I stand by the tolerance issue. As the world Is desentized to Transgender awareness than tolerance will go up for it. As far as the black or Latino comments, I'm not really sure what you are trying to say. Blacks and Latinos can enlist, just not the ones who want to be Transgender. Keep it on topic please. If the USA was attacked I'm sure they would redo the draft. The military is there to protect everyone under the USA banner. Strong, competent, not confused or mentally unstable. Suicide rates is high among soldiers already so we mix in the high suicide rate of Transgender people and now we have a military force anxious to kill themselves. Today's society really is to worried about every idiot and their wants. Individual rights do not have a place when considering the whole picture of national security. The same reason personal rights and freedoms are trumped during martial law. Let's be honest this next war will be nuclear and these Transgenders can't even help repopulate. What happens when they can't recieve the hormones or meds on the front line? Supply lines are cut and no hormones can make it to Simon or Simone or willow the tree? What kind of horrors would be committed to them if captured? What happens when they snap and kill their own squad? Put them in the front line beside the prisoners and welfare cases. Now we have a party Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComradeMilton Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 4 hours ago, Rozalia said: There are Muslim chaplains already yes. Different sect == different religion apparently, add religion to the list of many things you don't understand. Asking if the military allows all religions to be represented by chaplains indicates a lack of knowledge of religion? lol. Without Googling can you name the branch of Islam that rules Syria? I've only seen Christian chaplains and since there're Sunnis, Shiites (among others in Islam), Hindus, Buddhists, animists, Wiccans, Confucians, Taoists, atheists, and agnostics off the top of my head and Trump's recent decision to discriminate seems like a perfectly valid question with no relation to knowledge or lack of knowledge regarding religions. If someone believes themselves to be a different gender then lovely, make the change. If you can't or said gender is some make believe one you can't physically change yourself to then... oh well. So let's just discriminate, I guess? 4 hours ago, Apeman said: Usually governors (? Of course not, they're running a state) don't fight in wars so realistically it does come down to the soldiers trust issues or rights. I stand by the tolerance issue. As the world Is desentized to Transgender awareness than tolerance will go up for it. As far as the black or Latino comments, I'm not really sure what you are trying to say. Blacks and Latinos can enlist, just not the ones who want to be Transgender. Keep it on topic please. If the USA was attacked I'm sure they would redo the draft. It's on topic. In the past we excluded black and Latino people from enlisting for basically identical reasons. We have an extensive history of discrimination with regard to the military so avoiding arbitrary changes in who is allowed to fight for the US should probably be enough evidence that this'll become yet another example of us doing something ridiculous (again). The military is there to protect everyone under the USA banner (Everyone? Because I could've sworn I'd just read that Trump's banning some people from doing that.). Strong, competent, not confused or mentally unstable. Suicide rates is high among soldiers already so we mix in the high suicide rate of Transgender people and now we have a military force anxious to kill themselves. Uh, that's not really how it works... Today's society really is to worried about every idiot and their wants. Individual rights do not have a place when considering the whole picture of national security. The same reason personal rights and freedoms are trumped during martial law. Feel free to give up yours whenever you'd like. Stick a webcam into your bathroom aimed at your toilet and show us why the fourth amendment isn't necessary. Let's be honest this next war will be nuclear (No, it won't. So if we go honest we should probably accept that first.), we should probably and these Transgenders can't even help repopulate (That's not entirely accurate). What happens when they can't recieve the hormones or meds on the front line? Estrogen levels drop a bit? Supply lines are cut and no hormones can make it to Simon or Simone or willow the tree? What kind of horrors would be committed to them if captured? Surely if the US military rate of rape continues I think they'd be adequately prepared for mistreatment by opponents. What happens when they snap and kill their own squad? Probably the same thing that happens when anyone else does this. Put them in the front line beside the prisoners and welfare cases. Now we have a party You kind of just sound like a sociopath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozalia Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 Going to a Christian for your Christian spiritual needs is one thing, going to a Muslim is another. You tried to equate both and that is incorrect. There is a large difference between someone of a different sect and someone of a different religion entirely. What is there to discriminate against? Simply common sense. I could tomorrow say you got to call me Sally and refer to me as a Dirgusta... and? That crap is easy, there is a reason it is so easily and widespreadly mocked. Make the physical change and then you are worthy of the respect to be referred to for you want to be/now are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComradeMilton Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 Oh, by the way the answer about who knows religion controls Syria was ignored so I guess you lose there. The correct answer is Alawaite, which is an off-shoot sect of Shia Islam. 1 hour ago, Rozalia said: Going to a Christian for your Christian spiritual needs is one thing, going to a Muslim is another. You tried to equate both and that is incorrect. A protestant is of no formal use to a Catholic. There is a large difference between someone of a different sect and someone of a different religion entirely. So just no browns? Are the Muslims just out of luck as far as religion goes? If a chaplain is a chaplain and apparently it doesn't matter for your spiritual needs what's the issue with other religions being included? What is there to discriminate against? Simply common sense. I could tomorrow say you got to call me Sally and refer to me as a Dirgusta... and? That crap is easy, there is a reason it is so easily and widespreadly mocked. Make the physical change and then you are worthy of the respect to be referred to for you want to be/now are. <-- Not a single idea what you're posting here. I don't need your respect, dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozalia Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 Except IN POSTS WITH YOU I HAVE TALKED ABOUT THE ALAWAITES YOU BLOODY DAMN FOOL. How Assad will control the country when he wins, and then the nonsense that no the country is majority Sunni and won't stand for it. Me stating Assad is a minority and has protected other minorities from Sunni butchers, and it goes on. I have spoken of it so many times that this attempt by you is beyond stupid. Its offensive. Do you have to be racist? To begin with strictly talking US military the Muslims make a very small amount where even Trans beat them handily in numbers, and out of that small number the majority are likely to be black, not brown. Secondly there are such a thing as non-brown Muslims, why the discrimination? Christian to Christian there are some religious differences. With an entirely different faith it is alien. How hard is it to understand that "Make the physical change" is not directly addressed to you the person? I've said it before and I'll say it again. You're like an alien who doesn't understand even basic concepts of conversation. If I were kind I'd gather that your insanity is something you do when you need to escape and muddy things. I have posted in support of Transsexuals but not Transgenders, it is as simple as that. I've tried to explain why to you but you can't understand much as we know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor Jerry Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 (edited) Look, you either have "Man-Meat" or a "Va-Jay-Jay".....that's it......that's all. I think if someone wants to be identified as a certain sex....then have the correct out door shower or indoor plumbing and call yourself that particular sex. Now, since this is matter of personal preference and not one (in the vast majority of cases) of medical necessity, then if someone joins the military as a certain sex, then they must remain that sex until they are out of the military. If before you entered the military, you had a sex change and a medical screening has been completed prior to joining that states person "X" was this and is now this and is fit for full duty.....then fine, let them in and fight for their country. Going through a sex change while in an "Active-Duty" status would be a huge disruption to that unit so shouldn't be allowed. EDIT: Obviously if someone goes through a sex change procedure, they obviously want to be identified as that new sex, so these labels of "Transgender" or "Transsexual" are completely stupid, you either have all the equipment of one sex or the other. If your main reproductive plumbing is one way, but you still want to be called the other sex.....tough shit.....at that point, I'll either call you a "Cross-dresser" (outdoor showers wearing dresses), or "Butch" (I don't really see women dressing like men as cross-dressing since they normally wear t-shirts and pants/jeans anyway....just the style of them I guess would be different). Edited July 28, 2017 by Sailor Jerry 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caecus Posted July 28, 2017 Author Share Posted July 28, 2017 55 minutes ago, Gabranth said: As for some of the other rot in this thread, please keep it on topic. I'll try my best to close any of the stupid discussions going on that don't pertain to the OP. A. http://www.salon.com/2015/10/27/the_pedophile_i_could_not_help_he_was_not_a_monster_or_a_molester_the_system_destroyed_him_anyway/http://healthland.time.com/2010/11/12/is-banning-pro-pedophilia-books-the-right-answer/https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/06/opinion/pedophilia-a-disorder-not-a-crime.html A few examples of the left attempting to normalise pedophiliahttp://www.citywatchla.com/index.php/los-angeles/13128-sex-with-animals-should-ca-bestiality-law-be-changedhttp://www.huffingtonpost.ca/camille-labchuk/bestiality-bill-c-246_b_17015230.html Normalisation and even legality of beastialityhttp://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/incest-and-necrophilia-should-be-legal-youth-swedish-liberal-peoples-party-a6891476.html People honestly believing in consensual sex with dead people, What more do you want? This implies that gay marriage is at least equivalent to pedophilia, bestiality, and necrophilia. But you're right, this is off topic. 59 minutes ago, Gabranth said: Personally I don't think the military should be associating itself with anything to do with mental illness, and don't try and screw this the wrong way - gender dysphoria is a mental illness. One that seems commonly associated with other mental illnesses like depression and whatever else, and as Apeman said, the suicide rate of transgender people is astounding. Couple that with the mental and psychological strain of military training and you have yourself a recipe for some very tragic Pvt. Pyle type scenarios. That's really all it comes down to. As for the leftists who see this as discrimination - is this not a positive thing? Transgender people are no longer subject to the perils of war. Funny how people see that Trump can do no right, when people would beg and cry to avoid the draft. The scenario reminds me of the fake #DraftOurDaughters meme, which elicited some very hypocritical responses from the left. The common one was "I'm all for equality, but not this kind of equality." A common theme you'll see amongst the feminist left - they only want the good shit that straight white cis christian men have, and none of the drawbacks that come with it. Remember, this is supposed to be the same anti-war peace-loving hippie left, suddenly supporting American imperialism only because it now discriminates against one of the lowest minority groups in America. Less soldiers means less ability to war, right? In that case, you should discriminate against as many people as possible for the military, especially because the military are responsible for the security of the nation, quite literally the lifeline, so you would want only the best and most qualified people to do that. Transgenders, unfortunately, don't meet that criteria considering their mental incapability. The argument on the left is that suicide rates are high among transgender because of the discrimination they face. It's hard to be social with people who inherently think you are mentally ill at best. I agree, the mental and psychological strain of military training isn't something that people should overlook easily. You got to be one badass mother!@#$er to want to serve in any branch of this military (especially Marines, semper fi), let alone any elite special forces. However, if "gender dysphoria" were such a debilitating mental illness as you say, you would imagine there wouldn't be any transgender Navy Seals running around after their honorable discharge. Also, suicide among returning war veterans is high already, not in the least because they are mentally weak and can't handle the "mental and psychological strain of military training." As of today, there is no draft. There is a selective service (a more or less precursor to it in case of war), likely something you signed when you turned 18, but no draft. The current military is staffed by an all-volunteer army where patriots go to the nearest recruiting station of their own free will to sign their life away to the republic. This statement is ironic, because Trump (a straight white cis christian man) dodged the draft at least 5 times when it was instituted in darker times of our history. So, when Trump's policy essentially rejects people who are ready and willing to service this country when he himself did not answer the call, it's a bit hard to stomach. I'm afraid I share the same sentiment as the "peace-loving hippies" of the left, but I don't share their method to it. If the whole world could grab hands and sing Kumbaya, I'll join the hippie left as soon as I can. But human history and common sense dictates otherwise. You want peace in the world? Institute it by carrying around the biggest stick. The end of the 19th century began an age of unprecedented peace under the American hegemoney, matched only by the age of Augustus in 33. The American hegemoney is built on maintaining and improving the most technologically advanced and well-equipped military in human history. Less soldiers does not mean less war, on the contrary. Current geopolitical challenges in the South China Sea, the Korean peninsula, and the Baltic region necessitates a heightened readiness against usurpers who would overthrow the American order. As for transgenders in the military, I say treat them like you would any soldier. If transgenders can go on to become Navy Seals blowing out Taliban in the caves of Afghanistan, don't stop them. But if they have "mental incapacity," like any other straight white cis christian man could, yes, it is worth removing them from the military to preserve the efficiency of our armed forces. But to broadly say that transgender are inherently incapable of serving (especially if this comes from someone who has evaded the draft, let alone serve the country in any capacity before now) discounts reality. Quote It's a useful mental exercise. Through the years, many thinkers have been fascinated by it. But I don't enjoy playing. It was a game that was born during a brutal age when life counted for little. Everyone believed that some people were worth more than others. Kings. Pawns. I don't think that anyone is worth more than anyone else. Chess is just a game. Real people are not pieces. You can't assign more value to some of them and not others. Not to me. Not to anyone. People are not a thing that you can sacrifice. The lesson is, if anyone who looks on to the world as if it was a game of chess, deserves to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azkar Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 4 hours ago, Gabranth said: Personally I don't think the military should be associating itself with anything to do with mental illness, and don't try and screw this the wrong way - gender dysphoria is a mental illness. One that seems commonly associated with other mental illnesses like depression and whatever else, and as Apeman said, the suicide rate of transgender people is astounding. Couple that with the mental and psychological strain of military training and you have yourself a recipe for some very tragic Pvt. Pyle type scenarios. Gender dysphoria is a recognized mental condition, yes, but I suspect you're confused on what gender dysphoria is. Gender dysphoria is not having a non-standard gender identity - which, in and of itself, is not a recognized mental illness. It's the distress resulting from having a gender identity that does not align with one's biological sex. Depending on the individual, appropriate treatments include psychotherapy, hormone treatments and gender reassignment surgery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doktor Avalanche Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 What's with this "CIS" bullshit? The more "educated" we get, the more stupid we make things. Y'all are idiots. Quote Beer. Damn Good Beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caecus Posted July 28, 2017 Author Share Posted July 28, 2017 26 minutes ago, Doc Martini said: What's with this "CIS" bullshit? The more "educated" we get, the more stupid we make things. Y'all are idiots. SHHHHAARRRRKKK BAAAIIITTTT Quote It's a useful mental exercise. Through the years, many thinkers have been fascinated by it. But I don't enjoy playing. It was a game that was born during a brutal age when life counted for little. Everyone believed that some people were worth more than others. Kings. Pawns. I don't think that anyone is worth more than anyone else. Chess is just a game. Real people are not pieces. You can't assign more value to some of them and not others. Not to me. Not to anyone. People are not a thing that you can sacrifice. The lesson is, if anyone who looks on to the world as if it was a game of chess, deserves to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComradeMilton Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 12 hours ago, Rozalia said: Except IN POSTS WITH YOU I HAVE TALKED ABOUT THE ALAWAITES YOU BLOODY DAMN FOOL. Really? Where did you do this? Given your hostility to my posting I'd've thought an easy question like that could've been answered by you given how much religious knowledge you claim to posses. Why not really drive home your belief regarding whether I know about religion or not when given such an opportunity? How Assad will control the country when he wins, and then the nonsense that no the country is majority Sunni and won't stand for it. They generally don't have the option to select who runs the country. Me stating Assad is a minority and has protected other minorities from Sunni butchers, and it goes on. I have spoken of it so many times that this attempt by you is beyond stupid. Its offensive. Haha.Well, assuming you intended that as a joke otherwise it's funny for different reasons. Do you have to be racist? I'm not racist. To begin with strictly talking US military the Muslims make a very small amount where even Trans beat them handily in numbers So we discriminate among chaplains to keep out religions not approved by the Defense Department? and out of that small number the majority are likely to be black, not brown. Secondly there are such a thing as non-brown Muslims, why the discrimination? Because it was the last major time the US tried to arbitrarily prevent people with certain characteristics from joining the military to help defend their country. Christian to Christian there are some religious differences. With an entirely different faith it is alien. And I guess if it's not Christian (despite the US not being a Christian state anyone who isn't of that religion just gets ignored? How hard is it to understand that "Make the physical change" is not directly addressed to you the person? I've said it before and I'll say it again. You're like an alien who doesn't understand even basic concepts of conversation. If I were kind I'd gather that your insanity is something you do when you need to escape and muddy things. I have posted in support of Transsexuals but not Transgenders, it is as simple as that. I've tried to explain why to you but you can't understand much as we know. Those are the same thing in case you were unaware. 7 hours ago, Sailor Jerry said: Look, you either have "Man-Meat" or a "Va-Jay-Jay".....that's it......that's all.(Proclaiming this has no effect, just FYI) I think if someone wants to be identified as a certain sex....then have the correct out door shower or indoor plumbing and call yourself that particular sex. Or it's just not really your role in society to examine people's genitals to inform them whether they are or are not what they say they are. Now, since this is matter of personal preference and not one (in the vast majority of cases) of medical necessity, (This is already incorrect) then if someone joins the military as a certain sex, then they must remain that sex until they are out of the military. According to... ? If before you entered the military, you had a sex change and a medical screening has been completed prior to joining that states person "X" was this and is now this and is fit for full duty.....then fine, let them in and fight for their country. Going through a sex change while in an "Active-Duty" status would be a huge disruption to that unit so shouldn't be allowed. Pity we're not permitted to discriminate like in the past. Sounds like the unit should be better trained to adapt to changes. If someone lost their testicles during wartime do they have to resign immediately (to avoid the significant change in some parts of gender that'll affect unit cohesion or whatever? Or are they free to continue serving in whatever form they survived in? EDIT: Obviously if someone goes through a sex change procedure, they obviously want to be identified as that new sex, so these labels of "Transgender" or "Transsexual" are completely stupid, you either have all the equipment of one sex or the other. That's not how it works. They often use terms like this so all of the people terrified about not knowing what everyone looks like nude to make it clear that they were born differently than they are now. If your main reproductive plumbing is one way, but you still want to be called the other sex.....tough shit.....at that point, I'll either call you a "Cross-dresser" (outdoor showers wearing dresses), or "Butch" (I don't really see women dressing like men as cross-dressing since they normally wear t-shirts and pants/jeans anyway....just the style of them I guess would be different). If you want to hurl insults and discriminatory slurs at people why stop at gender? You could also be a racist if you like or even discriminate against other religions too. 5 hours ago, Gabranth said: Personally I don't think the military should be associating itself with anything to do with mental illness, and don't try and screw this the wrong way - gender dysphoria is a mental illness. One that seems commonly associated with other mental illnesses like depression and whatever else, and as Apeman said, the suicide rate of transgender people is astounding. Couple that with the mental and psychological strain of military training and you have yourself a recipe for some very tragic Pvt. Pyle type scenarios. Please show where that incident you describe has ever happened. That's really all it comes down to. As for the leftists who see this as discrimination - is this not a positive thing? Transgender people are no longer subject to the perils of war. No, it's closest to World War II when the US prevented black people from most roles in the military no matter how much they wanted the freedom to help defend the United States. The only substantive difference is now we're doing gender instead of race and entirely keeping them from enlisting rather than preventing the individuals to only serve in support roles. Funny how people see that Trump can do no right, when people would beg and cry to avoid the draft. (The primary complainant about not running a draft is the military itself) The scenario reminds me of the fake #DraftOurDaughters meme, which elicited some very hypocritical responses from the left. The common one was "I'm all for equality, but not this kind of equality." Please direct me to where this happened A common theme you'll see amongst the feminist left - they only want the good shit that straight white cis christian men have, and none of the drawbacks that come with it. I guess you missed the attempt at an amendment proposed in the 1970s to allow full equality between men and women, including advocating the draft include women just as much as men and was supported during the attempt at adding it by this "feminist left" thing you have going here. Remember, this is supposed to be the same anti-war peace-loving hippie left, suddenly supporting American imperialism only because it now discriminates against one of the lowest minority groups in America. Peace is definitely terrifying, I guess? I don't see any support for American imperialism Less soldiers means less ability to war, right? In that case, you should discriminate against as many people as possible for the military, especially because the military are responsible for the security of the nation, quite literally the lifeline, so you would want only the best and most qualified people to do that. Transgenders, unfortunately, don't meet that criteria considering their mental incapability. When did you receive your Ph.D in psychology and license to practice? As for some of the other rot in this thread, please keep it on topic. I'll try my best to close any of the stupid discussions going on that don't pertain to the OP. Are you a forums moderator? It doesn't indicate you are, so please limit your attempts to decide if or when the topic will change. A. http://www.salon.com/2015/10/27/the_pedophile_i_could_not_help_he_was_not_a_monster_or_a_molester_the_system_destroyed_him_anyway/http://healthland.time.com/2010/11/12/is-banning-pro-pedophilia-books-the-right-answer/https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/06/opinion/pedophilia-a-disorder-not-a-crime.html A few examples of the left attempting to normalise pedophilia Who is the left as you describe them? This isn't related to gay marriage at all. Childrens is are not capable of providing consent so this is unrelated to gay marriage.http://www.citywatchla.com/index.php/los-angeles/13128-sex-with-animals-should-ca-bestiality-law-be-changedhttp://www.huffingtonpost.ca/camille-labchuk/bestiality-bill-c-246_b_17015230.html Normalisation and even legality of beastiality This also has nothing to do with gay marriage. It's objectionable and criminal because, again, one of the parties is incapable of giving consent.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/incest-and-necrophilia-should-be-legal-youth-swedish-liberal-peoples-party-a6891476.html People honestly believing in consensual sex with dead people, What more do you want? Actual evidence, perhaps? Again, dead people can't consent to sexual activity, so again, this is unrelated to gay marriage. B. It just so happens that not every military base has a priest, deacons or anything else required for a full congregation and liturgy, and as such, mass cannot be done. Fortunately for Catholics, the rule exists that "if there is no opportunity to fulfil an obligation (mass), then the obligation does not exist". Which rule is that? DoD or Pope? The former doesn't have the standing to make such a decision... I'm not too familiar with how mass works in the military, but I know for certain that any Church-respecting Bishop would never allow any protestant to conduct the rites associated with Catholic mass in his diocese. I would assume the same applies in the army. Talking about Muslim chaplains, I think that would warrant some protest from any church-goer, it's nothing short of heretical. How is it heretical? If we can have Protestants serving Catholics why can't all of the religions in the United States hold chaplain positions? However, considering that Catholic mass is not the only thing we're talking about, yes, the military would allow chaplains to allow for other religious ceremonies to take place - a Sunni chaplain would lead a Sunni prayer, a Baptist would lead a Baptist prayer and so on, but never in these prayers would a chaplain from one religion perform the rites associated with another religion. Simple as that. You already said they do, though so I'm confused. How do you move from the beginning of this paragraph where you state military bases are unable to accommodate the religious needs of everyone on the base to this end where you decide Christianity as the only acceptable chaplain religion? Which military bases are so small they can't accommodate, say, twenty chaplains of varying faiths to keep everyone's needs met? It certainly can't be from lack of funds given how much we fund the military already. C. I feel the need to quote this for posterity, Not every country includes an amendment to secure the privacy of citizens from unlawful searches and seizures, but I'm absolutely sure no developed country allows for the spying of people in the bathroom - public or private. It seems that, as usual, the American has his head up his ass to the rest of the world and how it works. You don't need a constitutionally approved right to not be spied on in the bathroom. If you have nothing to hide, why would a lack of privacy be an issue? Of course, just about everything that Milton said is completely retarded, as usual, but for some reason I don't feel the need to point out every single inaccuracy Milton has portrayed in this thread, of which consists of just about everything he has said. I would trust that any sensible person could see that spiteful little coloured text inside quote boxes and not feel the need to "feed the troll", because at this point, I'm absolutely certain that no person could honestly be this stupid. Where am I inaccurate, out of curiosity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doktor Avalanche Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 5 minutes ago, Caecus said: SHHHHAARRRRKKK BAAAIIITTTT Ya'got me! 1 Quote Beer. Damn Good Beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caecus Posted July 28, 2017 Author Share Posted July 28, 2017 18 minutes ago, Doc Martini said: Ya'got me! I see your bait, you can't fool me. I'm a smart fishy too. One of those exotic pieces of shit, I think they call them Betas. And I love salty waters. Mmmmhmmmm, salt. Quote It's a useful mental exercise. Through the years, many thinkers have been fascinated by it. But I don't enjoy playing. It was a game that was born during a brutal age when life counted for little. Everyone believed that some people were worth more than others. Kings. Pawns. I don't think that anyone is worth more than anyone else. Chess is just a game. Real people are not pieces. You can't assign more value to some of them and not others. Not to me. Not to anyone. People are not a thing that you can sacrifice. The lesson is, if anyone who looks on to the world as if it was a game of chess, deserves to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComradeMilton Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 16 minutes ago, Gabranth said: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3780758/ Suicide is a particular concern for this population. The claim for you to explain related to transgender incidents within initial training. You showed data for veterans. Those two things are completely different, so, again, please link where this has happened. Results show that suicide-related events occur at significantly elevated rates among this population, which corroborates results from other transgender samples.8–10,26,27 Estimates for each year—ranging from 4000 per 100 000 to 5000 per 100 000—were well above any general population metric related to suicidal behavior. For example, general population data available from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Web-based Injury Statistics Query and Reporting System indicate a past year crude rate of self-harm injuries of 150.61 per 100 000 in the year 2010.35 Among VHA veterans in general, the rate of suicide-related events in FY2010 was approximately 202 per 100 000 patients,36 which makes the FY2010 rate among veterans with GID more than 20 times higher. That doesn't refute my point at all. You're literally going to provide memes instead of data and five samples as representative of 50% of the American population? http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/draftourdaughters https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/13/opinion/return-the-draft-and-include-women.html I'm not sure which sources you'll find acceptable. If you can indicate that I can provide many more examples. For now I'm providing an OpEd from one of the most respected media in the United States, which at minimum exceeds your examples while we wait to see what sources you'll trust and which you'll dismiss. Just a few of the many responses. No doubt a total representation and not just selective usage that fits your point of view. http://www.npr.org/2016/02/28/468456823/fact-check-are-women-facing-the-draft I guess you missed the part where it says women are no longer banned, not the fact they're in the draft - thus the whole controversy around #DraftOurDaughters. The left is the people who support changes or additions to legislation for the sole purpose of equality regardless of merit. It is related to the slippery slope associated with the acceptance of gay marriage. Now we are done with homosexuals, the left has moved to "pedosexuality", necrophilia and bestiality to satiate their need for equality and change. The very fact we're discussing the role of trans people in the military is a testament to this - 5 years ago trans people were such a non-issue it didn't even warrant a discussion, yet here we are. At least two of us demonstrated why your slippery slope example holds no merit. None of the issues you bring up are useful since none of them related to being gay (where both parties are consensual) versus your erroneous equating of three things already illegal because the other party isn't capable of providing consent. Literally nothing to do with gay marriage. You're correct that what you call the left is constantly pushing for equality. Given your stance seems to conservative I'm surprised you're so dismissive of government not being able to be treated as an equal in your country. The Sunday Eucharist 2177 The Sunday celebration of the Lord's Day and his Eucharist is at the heart of the Church's life. "Sunday is the day on which the paschal mystery is celebrated in light of the apostolic tradition and is to be observed as the foremost holy day of obligation in the universal Church."110 "Also to be observed are the day of the Nativity of Our Lord Jesus Christ, the Epiphany, the Ascension of Christ, the feast of the Body and Blood of Christi, the feast of Mary the Mother of God, her Immaculate Conception, her Assumption, the feast of Saint Joseph, the feast of the Apostles Saints Peter and Paul, and the feast of All Saints."111 2178 This practice of the Christian assembly dates from the beginnings of the apostolic age.112 The Letter to the Hebrews reminds the faithful "not to neglect to meet together, as is the habit of some, but to encourage one another."113 Tradition preserves the memory of an ever-timely exhortation: Come to Church early, approach the Lord, and confess your sins, repent in prayer. . . . Be present at the sacred and divine liturgy, conclude its prayer and do not leave before the dismissal. . . . We have often said: "This day is given to you for prayer and rest. This is the day that the Lord has made, let us rejoice and be glad in it."114 2179 "A parish is a definite community of the Christian faithful established on a stable basis within a particular church; the pastoral care of the parish is entrusted to a pastor as its own shepherd under the authority of the diocesan bishop."115 It is the place where all the faithful can be gathered together for the Sunday celebration of the Eucharist. The parish initiates the Christian people into the ordinary expression of the liturgical life: it gathers them together in this celebration; it teaches Christ's saving doctrine; it practices the charity of the Lord in good works and brotherly love: You cannot pray at home as at church, where there is a great multitude, where exclamations are cried out to God as from one great heart, and where there is something more: the union of minds, the accord of souls, the bond of charity, the prayers of the priests.116 The Sunday obligation 2180 The precept of the Church specifies the law of the Lord more precisely: "On Sundays and other holy days of obligation the faithful are bound to participate in the Mass."117 "The precept of participating in the Mass is satisfied by assistance at a Mass which is celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the holy day or on the evening of the preceding day."118 2181 The Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice. For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) or dispensed by their own pastor.119 Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin. The Catechism of the Catholic Church, the highest authority. The highest Catholic authority is the Pope, actually. Except I didn't? I said that chaplains from one faith cannot conduct the rights associated with another. I don't think it's an issue of military funding, but rather the supply of chaplains available, not every person of faith has the qualifications to conduct the rites associated with their faith. Not every person who joins the military is going to be able to serve in the infantry if they're unable to effectively engage in combat. Vetting representatives from each religion and assigning like twenty people per military base is perfectly affordable, better represents our Constitutional restrictions regarding favoring one religion over another. They'd obviously need to be evaluated, but the military already does that for people serving so it's not really clear why they can't do that with regard to chaplains as well. Because surveillance in bathrooms is no longer a means of security, it is pure perversion. I have my genitalia to hide from everyone I'm not willing to share it with - the government is one of those entities. So, are you in favor of privacy even through you may not have any reason for it to be infringed upon, or are you supportive of people exercising their rights to privacy even if there's nothing to indicate criminal activity? If you support no limits on privacy we should be fine watching you use the bathroom and I'd think you'd be excited to comply and demonstrate that when a citizen has nothing to legally hide he or she may still prefer their privacy be respected? Pretty much everything you said. I would go over every point you have made and tell you why it's wrong but doing so would take me an eternity. No matter how hard anyone demolishes you in debates you still come back to shitpost non-stop. Get better arguments? I don't shitpost; I just don't happen to agree with some people who are also currently posting. I accept you can't refute my points and that's fine, but it doesn't make it shitposting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozalia Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 Except they are not no matter how much certain devious "Transgenders" try to claim them as being to strengthen their case and legitimacy. Educate yourself Milton. You could say both are "Trans", but to say both are "Transgender" is to muddy the waters for obvious dubious means. Quote http://www.medicaldaily.com/what-difference-between-transsexual-and-transgender-facebooks-new-version-its-complicated-271389 Transsexuals are people who transition from one sex to another. A person born as a male can become recognizably female through the use of hormones and/or surgical procedures; and a person born as a female can become recognizably male. That said, transsexuals are unable to change their genetics and cannot acquire the reproductive abilities of the sex to which they transition. Sex is assigned at birth and refers to a person’s biological status as male or female. In other words, sex refers exclusively to the biological features: chromosomes, the balance of hormones, and internal and external anatomy. Each of us is born as either male or female, with rare exceptions of those born intersex who may display characteristics of both sexes at birth. Transgender, unlike transsexual, is a term for people whose identity, expression, behavior, or general sense of self does not conform to what is usually associated with the sex they were born in the place they were born. It is often said sex is a matter of the body, while gender occurs in the mind. Gender is an internal sense of being male, female, or other. People often use binary terms, for instance, masculine or feminine, to describe gender just as they do when referring to sex. But gender is more complex and encompasses more than just two possibilities. Gender also is influenced by culture, class, and race because behavior, activities, and attributes seen as appropriate in one society or group may be viewed otherwise in another. Transgender, then, unlike transsexual is a multifaceted term. One example of a transgendered person might be a man who is attracted to women but also identifies as a cross-dresser. Other examples include people who consider themselves gender nonconforming, multigendered, androgynous, third gender, and two-spirit people. All of these definitions are inexact and vary from person to person, yet each of them includes a sense of blending or alternating the binary concepts of masculinity and femininity. Some people using these terms simply see the traditional concepts as restrictive. Less than one percent of all adults identify as transgender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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