Trump Worshipers Duped?

[Frank Todd]

Do you guys think that all the Trump supporters have been duped by their elected president? if so (or not) please comment back.

[Thalmor]

Trump voter here. I'm still pretty happy. I wish the Republicans could work together better, though. There's no excuse why we can't do anything despite controlling both halves of Congress and the Presidency.

[Dubayoo]

2 hours ago, Frank Todd said:

Do you guys think that all the Trump supporters have been duped by their elected president? if so (or not) please comment back.

I didn't vote for Trump because he seemed like he was telling you what you wanted to hear about political correctness and the rule of law and order just to get votes.  He even said that we don't care about Hillary anymore since he won.  Anyone who's followed him for the past 30 years knows that he's a John Kerry flip-flopper too since he's admitted to supporting plenty of liberal policies over the years.  Even CNN's producers were caught on camera saying they believe he's not a real Republican.

Trump voters aren't duped though.  They anticipated he'd do this, but they just didn't care.  They voted for his personality, not his policies.

[丂ħ̧i̧₣ɫ̵γ͘ ̶™]

Voted for him. So far I like this anti-Obama's legacy approach and his America for Americans rhetoric.

Dislike: His Israel to the death support, Jared Kushner and Ivanka's cancerous beliefs/influence, and his lack of total shutdown of the democrats. (Where's my Shillary in jail?)

Hope he's saving the latter as his Osama capture/2 term trump card.

Anyway, so happy to hear Anti-Fa is now labeled a terrorist organization and that liberal culture has become an open season joke. It's a set in the right direction of turning back what's happened to America. The nice thing is it isn't a turn back time, muh 1950s. It's a new, modern right wing with more vigor. It's time for the rise of the unapologetic right.

[Caecus]

On 7/4/2017 at 5:50 AM, Dubayoo said:

I didn't vote for Trump because he seemed like he was telling you what you wanted to hear about political correctness and the rule of law and order just to get votes.  He even said that we don't care about Hillary anymore since he won.  Anyone who's followed him for the past 30 years knows that he's a John Kerry flip-flopper too since he's admitted to supporting plenty of liberal policies over the years.  Even CNN's producers were caught on camera saying they believe he's not a real Republican.

Trump voters aren't duped though.  They anticipated he'd do this, but they just didn't care.  They voted for his personality, not his policies.

I disagree. If anything should come from the 2016 election, it is that you can be a !@#$-grabbing narcissistic sociopath without a shred of dignity and still be elected to the most powerful, prestigious, and prominent position in the world by "virtue" of promising 5% GDP growth and a conservative supreme court nomination. Turns out Americans don't particularly care if their president is the dumbest, classless lying shitard there is so long as it's in their economic interests. Oh, and a bunch of angsty teenagers who thought that by not voting for their beloved socialist leader, they don't have any part in electing the Orwellian shitshow going on today. 

 

With the exception of the Supreme Court nominee, Trump hasn't done anything. He's passed no legislation. He doesn't have a budget. The political arena today suggests that won't happen either. Most Americans don't particularly care about foreign affairs either, so long as it doesn't lead to a major confrontation and affecting American lives. Here's what I predict: Trump voters will be "happy" with Trump regardless of what he will actually achieve. People will say that he will get things passed and do good for this country, but 3 months down the road, those same people will say they were happy with just the Sup pick in the first place. If you look at his approval ratings over time, Trump does something abysmally stupid and his approval drops, but it always climbs back up to his 36%. I am fully convinced Donald Trump could shit on the oval office desk and a week later his approval numbers would be back up to the 36 line. In light of all the times he has politically shot himself in the head, I don't know where the line would end for Trump supporters. The dismantling of the democratic system? Ripping the constitution (literally, not figuratively)? Accidentally launching a nuke at Florida? I genuinely don't think there is that line for the 36%. Trump supporters will never feel duped. 

[Caecus]

On 7/4/2017 at 4:54 AM, Thalmor said:

Trump voter here. I'm still pretty happy. I wish the Republicans could work together better, though. There's no excuse why we can't do anything despite controlling both halves of Congress and the Presidency.

Don't forget the Supreme Court too! The problem with Republicans is that they have two opposite extremes. One is a powerful conservative right wing powerhouse who want no government, and the other is a moderate wing which closely resemble right democrats who don't want anything to go. The balancing act going on with the Obamacare repeal is that the moderate half of Republicans actually want to keep the ACA and just reform it, and the conservative block wants to gut it like a fish. They won't be working together on anything. They didn't during the Obama and Bush administration, and they won't now. The parties have polarized since the end of the Cold War. If you subscribe to Schmidt, I suppose that's a pretty good excuse. 

The best way to pass anything is through help with moderate democrats. Moderate democrats make up a large enough portion to combine with moderate Republicans to get things passed. This was how the ACA was passed too. Unlike the "shrill" left wing, they are actually open to working with Republicans on it. Problem is, they are under intense pressure by both the democratic party and their constituents to give the middle finger to Trump at any point they can. Most democrats will be running on that platform of telling Trump to !@#$ off, even the moderates from red governor states. Hell, even some moderate Republicans are feeling the heat to do so as well. 

[Dubayoo]

1 hour ago, Caecus said:

I disagree. If anything should come from the 2016 election, it is that you can be a !@#$-grabbing narcissistic sociopath without a shred of dignity and still be elected to the most powerful, prestigious, and prominent position in the world by "virtue" of promising 5% GDP growth and a conservative supreme court nomination. Turns out Americans don't particularly care if their president is the dumbest, classless lying shitard there is so long as it's in their economic interests. Oh, and a bunch of angsty teenagers who thought that by not voting for their beloved socialist leader, they don't have any part in electing the Orwellian shitshow going on today. 

 

With the exception of the Supreme Court nominee, Trump hasn't done anything. He's passed no legislation. He doesn't have a budget. The political arena today suggests that won't happen either. Most Americans don't particularly care about foreign affairs either, so long as it doesn't lead to a major confrontation and affecting American lives. Here's what I predict: Trump voters will be "happy" with Trump regardless of what he will actually achieve. People will say that he will get things passed and do good for this country, but 3 months down the road, those same people will say they were happy with just the Sup pick in the first place. If you look at his approval ratings over time, Trump does something abysmally stupid and his approval drops, but it always climbs back up to his 36%. I am fully convinced Donald Trump could shit on the oval office desk and a week later his approval numbers would be back up to the 36 line. In light of all the times he has politically shot himself in the head, I don't know where the line would end for Trump supporters. The dismantling of the democratic system? Ripping the constitution (literally, not figuratively)? Accidentally launching a nuke at Florida? I genuinely don't think there is that line for the 36%. Trump supporters will never feel duped. 

...but that's the thing.  They liked him for being a narcissistic sociopath without a shred of dignity.  Even if you talk with Trump supporters now after he's already reneged on his promise to assign a special prosecutor to go after Hillary, they say they don't care.  They anticipated he was telling moderates, centrists, and independents on the fence what they wanted to hear just to get what he wanted out of them.

Everyone in politics doesn't like someone who's well-mannered.  Some people have bad boy syndrome.  They like jerks.

I say this especially in light of how Trump won a majority of white women while he hosted beauty pageants, has two divorced wives, and got away with saying what to grab.  Some people like to be treated like garbage, and others admire those who treat others like garbage.

Edited July 5, 2017 by Dubayoo

[Frank Todd]

[Thalmor]

2 hours ago, Caecus said:

Don't forget the Supreme Court too! The problem with Republicans is that they have two opposite extremes. One is a powerful conservative right wing powerhouse who want no government, and the other is a moderate wing which closely resemble right democrats who don't want anything to go. The balancing act going on with the Obamacare repeal is that the moderate half of Republicans actually want to keep the ACA and just reform it, and the conservative block wants to gut it like a fish. They won't be working together on anything. They didn't during the Obama and Bush administration, and they won't now. The parties have polarized since the end of the Cold War. If you subscribe to Schmidt, I suppose that's a pretty good excuse. 

The best way to pass anything is through help with moderate democrats. Moderate democrats make up a large enough portion to combine with moderate Republicans to get things passed. This was how the ACA was passed too. Unlike the "shrill" left wing, they are actually open to working with Republicans on it. Problem is, they are under intense pressure by both the democratic party and their constituents to give the middle finger to Trump at any point they can. Most democrats will be running on that platform of telling Trump to !@#$ off, even the moderates from red governor states. Hell, even some moderate Republicans are feeling the heat to do so as well. 

Ahh, alrighty then. I knew there were factions in the Republican party but I didn't know what those were. Thanks, Caecus.

[WISD0MTREE]

16 hours ago, Shifty Stranger said:

Anyway, so happy to hear Anti-Fa is now labeled a terrorist organization and that liberal culture has become an open season joke.

https://archive.is/ihft4

These antifa shits are trying to shut down major phone lines (knowing 911 lines could be damaged). They can all burn in hell (once they die of natural causes, of course - don't want to incite any violence )

[ComradeMilton]

I hope the same for conservatives.

[Thalmor]

19 minutes ago, ComradeMilton said:

I hope the same for conservatives.

See, we actually have a reason to dislike antifa. I mean, cutting phone lines and breaking windows is a pretty shitty thing to do.

What's your problem with us, though? Why are you so eager so see people like me and WISD0MTREE pass away?

[Caecus]

4 hours ago, Dubayoo said:

...but that's the thing.  They liked him for being a narcissistic sociopath without a shred of dignity.  Even if you talk with Trump supporters now after he's already reneged on his promise to assign a special prosecutor to go after Hillary, they say they don't care.  They anticipated he was telling moderates, centrists, and independents on the fence what they wanted to hear just to get what he wanted out of them.

Everyone in politics doesn't like someone who's well-mannered.  Some people have bad boy syndrome.  They like jerks.

I say this especially in light of how Trump won a majority of white women while he hosted beauty pageants, has two divorced wives, and got away with saying what to grab.  Some people like to be treated like garbage, and others admire those who treat others like garbage.

I also have to disagree with this statement. From the people I know who voted for Trump, most of them say they don't like him, they just like his policies. Granted, the population that I talk to is skewed. I live in Utah, where Trump's anti-immigration and rhetoric attacking other religions doesn't bode well here. Not to mention he has a long history of infidelity and multiple wives (though according to the stereotype of Mormons, I suppose that's not too far off base). In fact, he almost lost to a CIA Mormon guy that was only on the ticket in Utah. Most people here held their noses when they voted for him. 

Regardless, Trump is an "outsider." People like him because they equate the stupid shit he does to not being tethered to the establishment. They see a government which gets nothing done and representatives who get a shit ton of money in the process (which, for the most part is true). They see Trump as the great arsonist who will burn the whole shitshow down. However, I would argue that Trump isn't tethered to the establishment, he's not even tethered to reality. The 36% don't see a madman who gives no !@#$ about the constitution or democratic institutions, they see a man standing up to the restrictive and biased establishment. Again, I'm not sure how much leeway Trump supporters will give the man. Again, I don't think there is a line. 

3 hours ago, Thalmor said:

Ahh, alrighty then. I knew there were factions in the Republican party but I didn't know what those were. Thanks, Caecus.

No probs. Rand Paul is the leader of the ultra-conservative faction in the Senate. Look for him for this upcoming bill, it's all going to depend on him if it passes or not. As of now, Rand Paul thinks it's too Obamacare Lite. The moderate faction is more or less embodied in McConnell, though I would argue McCain is a more representative senator for the moderates. They see the 20 million being thrown off healthcare and fear for their seats. McCain is a republican in a blue state, so he actually has reason to want to veto the bill. 

[Dubayoo]

1 minute ago, Caecus said:

I also have to disagree with this statement. From the people I know who voted for Trump, most of them say they don't like him, they just like his policies. Granted, the population that I talk to is skewed. I live in Utah, where Trump's anti-immigration and rhetoric attacking other religions doesn't bode well here. Not to mention he has a long history of infidelity and multiple wives (though according to the stereotype of Mormons, I suppose that's not too far off base). In fact, he almost lost to a CIA Mormon guy that was only on the ticket in Utah. Most people here held their noses when they voted for him. 

Regardless, Trump is an "outsider." People like him because they equate the stupid shit he does to not being tethered to the establishment. They see a government which gets nothing done and representatives who get a shit ton of money in the process (which, for the most part is true). They see Trump as the great arsonist who will burn the whole shitshow down. However, I would argue that Trump isn't tethered to the establishment, he's not even tethered to reality. The 36% don't see a madman who gives no !@#$ about the constitution or democratic institutions, they see a man standing up to the restrictive and biased establishment. Again, I'm not sure how much leeway Trump supporters will give the man. Again, I don't think there is a line. 

If you want the proof, look at where he won.  He won the midwest in places like Wisconsin, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Michigan.  He won in Florida which is a regular toss-up and has a very significant Hispanic population that would be easily affected by any immigration regulations.

These are not places renowned for sophisticated intellectualism when it comes to policy.  They don't consider what it really means to be part of the establishment as someone who thinks but just thinks in a different way.  Their understanding of political correctness is very basic in interpreting it according to victim culture rather than negligence of retributive justice.  Even Russell Kirk, a conservative midwest intellectual of his time who was renowned for his anti-populism and second only to Bill Buckley after getting the Presidential Citizens Medal from Reagan, was completely dismissed.  Nobody even talked about anything he believed in at all.

The fact of the matter is Trump didn't run a campaign with sophisticated policies.  Yea, he's an outsider, but to them, that means someone who's crude, vulgar, and obtuse.  To them, that means someone who isn't familiar with or appreciative of the finer things in life.  They like him because his style was presented as brash and he had little if any appreciation of manners whatsoever.  His primary numbers skyrocketing after Ted Cruz accused Melania Trump of being graceless in exposing herself just adds to the proof.

[Sweeeeet Ronny D]

The real hope here is that the democrats can get off their ass and actually put forth a candidate that people want to actively vote for, aka not Hilary.  If Hilary pulled Obama like participation at the voting both, it wouldn't have been close.

[Dubayoo]

38 minutes ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

The real hope here is that the democrats can get off their ass and actually put forth a candidate that people want to actively vote for, aka not Hilary.  If Hilary pulled Obama like participation at the voting both, it wouldn't have been close.

Stephen Colbert has considered it already.  As a fellow TV personality with a sense of wit, he could pull it off: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2017/06/24/stephen-colbert-went-to-russia-to-announce-his-2020-run-for-president/?utm_term=.a1234f6bebd3

Mark Zuckerberg is considering it too.  The two of them would be a formidable team: http://theweek.com/articles/702752/mark-zuckerberg-run-president

 

[Sweeeeet Ronny D]

or you know... somebody that actually knows what the hell they are doing could run.  Since we are seeing how well having a celebrity run the country is currently working for us.

[Thalmor]

Democrats have no good leaders right now. They also don't have any good candidates.

Maybe the only reason I see it that way is because I'm a Republican and so I don't pay attention to Democratic internal politics, but I don't see any good candidates or party leaders from the Democrats that can really carry Obama's torch or lead the party into success from their losing spree.

[丂ħ̧i̧₣ɫ̵γ͘ ̶™]

6 hours ago, Thalmor said:

See, we actually have a reason to dislike antifa. I mean, cutting phone lines and breaking windows is a pretty shitty thing to do.

What's your problem with us, though? Why are you so eager so see people like me and WISD0MTREE pass away?

I see you didn't extend that to me. I'm watching you.

[Thalmor]

1 hour ago, Shifty Stranger said:

I see you didn't extend that to me. I'm watching you.

Baby it's not you it's me </3

[Dubayoo]

7 hours ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

or you know... somebody that actually knows what the hell they are doing could run.  Since we are seeing how well having a celebrity run the country is currently working for us.

I'm not saying it's a good thing.

I'm just saying it's a winning strategy.

[ComradeMilton]

18 hours ago, Thalmor said:

See, we actually have a reason to dislike antifa. I mean, cutting phone lines and breaking windows is a pretty shitty thing to do.

What's your problem with us, though? Why are you so eager so see people like me and WISD0MTREE pass away?

if it works for one side no sense in not helping the other side too.

[Caecus]

18 hours ago, Thalmor said:

Democrats have no good leaders right now. They also don't have any good candidates.

Maybe the only reason I see it that way is because I'm a Republican and so I don't pay attention to Democratic internal politics, but I don't see any good candidates or party leaders from the Democrats that can really carry Obama's torch or lead the party into success from their losing spree.

This is, to some extent, true. 

The current go-to leaders of the Democrats is Pelosi and Schumer. Presidential candidate-wise, these two are far out there picks. However, it's not to say that they are terrible leaders, on the contrary. Pelosi and Schumer have more traditional congressional strengths, such as being good campaigners and fundraisers. Ever since the catastrphoic loss in 2010, they have essentially been evening the odds in Congress. They just have the personal appeal (to the millennials, the fickle group of angsty teens I keep referring to) of a wet carrot. They can run a good traditional campaign, but they have no idea what a Facebook is. Hillary's social media presence was more miss than hit, but significantly better. 

If I had to make a prediction, the Democrats are going to win a lot in 2018. Think I'm full of shit? Just look at 2010. Barrack Obama rides into office with 65%+ approval post-housing shittown, and then immediately after is subject to attack by conservatives. His proposal of ACA was essentially on the ticket, and most people were against it at the time (since every other word about the ACA was "socialist"). The Dems lost HARD in 2010. Like, former-majority-in-Senate level of losses. Obama's approval rating never dropped below 55 during that time. 

That being said, you have a president who hasn't done anything except a Supreme Court nomination. He spends most of his days tweeting about dumb shit instead of getting things done, and has shown no real leadership in any way regarding to the deployment of the AHCA. Russia still follows him like Benghazi, and his approval rating is second only to Nixon post-Watergate and Bush at the bottom of the housing market. Assuming Schumer and Pelosi didn't suffer a stroke and still know what they are doing, the democrats are (in my personal analysis) going to kill it in 2018. 

Again, presidential candidate-wise, both of them are less amusing than a dirty laundry. Maybe Bernie will run as a democrat again, despite being A &#33;@#&#036;ing INDEPENDENT YOU DUMBASS BERNIE BROS. If Clinton is still alive and everyone gets over the "I-hate-Clinton" phase, maybe she might have a go at it. Warren might take a shot too. So yes, they are deficient in getting good candidates for president, but not entirely bad leaders. 

Not to sound like our president, but Obama is to blame too. Obama was good at getting perhaps the most transformative legislation in the last 50 years (excluding 1965 immigration) into law, but did nothing for his party when the midterms spanked the Dems. But it also doesn't help that your major party leaders have the charisma of a dead fish. 

There is still time for the Democrats to find someone though. Same thing happened for Republicans before Trump. You think Jeb &#33;@#&#036;ing Bush is any better than Schumer or Pelosi? God-forbid, Chris Christie? The Republicans got lucky that some twitter troll emerged from a (golden) basement to run for president. 

[Lelouch Vi Britannia]

On 2017-07-05 at 1:40 PM, Caecus said:

-Reply to Thalmor Snip-

 

 

On 2017-07-04 at 6:54 AM, Thalmor said:

-Snip-

 

 

Off Topic: But I like to see the two sides of the political table properly debating it out with one another and working together.

 

On Topic: Although I am a Canadian with Polish/Indian Background I do think that Americans need to come together to the table and agree on a compromise even if there will be backlash for it. You're all essentially Americans and an outright no cooperation between Democrats and Republicans will get you either very liberal (And Destroy you) or very conservative (Which will do the same).

Cooperation is key, build and go off it.

Learn from Trump and work around it. Mistakes are a chance to learn.

[Frank Todd]

3 hours ago, Lelouch Vi Britannia said:

 

 

Off Topic: But I like to see the two sides of the political table properly debating it out with one another and working together.

 

On Topic: Although I am a Canadian with Polish/Indian Background I do think that Americans need to come together to the table and agree on a compromise even if there will be backlash for it. You're all essentially Americans and an outright no cooperation between Democrats and Republicans will get you either very liberal (And Destroy you) or very conservative (Which will do the same).

Cooperation is key, build and go off it.

Learn from Trump and work around it. Mistakes are a chance to learn.

This line of reasoning is why party systems were outlawed by the origin constitution (but then for some reason revoked). A nation that hopes to defeat itself will do exactly that, defeat itself.