I don't think this will be a surprise to anybody

[Dubayoo]

Looks like KT's a flip-flopper.  It dives into something controversial and doesn't choose to stick to its guns. 

 

Sometimes, you have to remember PnW's just a game.  

[CrispyGeneral]

Looks like KT's a flip-flopper.  It dives into something controversial and doesn't choose to stick to its guns. 

 

Sometimes, you have to remember PnW's just a game.

 

Arguably People have to remember many take this seriously and even if you hate IG having competition of ideologies is what makes the game fun. Atleast imo I cant imagine what the community is doing atm is very good since its ridding the competition and starving the interesting bits right out. I mean sure you roll IG and thats fun too you yet itll pass and the game will become as stale as (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways). I mean atleast in terms of community wise and RP. Atleast (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) had a good community where both sides would enjoy competition for the most part and realize in the end we are all just people. This is mainly my own opinion so dont take it so heavily.

[Dubayoo]

Arguably People have to remember many take this seriously and even if you hate IG having competition of ideologies is what makes the game fun. Atleast imo I cant imagine what the community is doing atm is very good since its ridding the competition and starving the interesting bits right out. I mean sure you roll IG and thats fun too you yet itll pass and the game will become as stale as (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways). I mean atleast in terms of community wise and RP. Atleast (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) had a good community where both sides would enjoy competition for the most part and realize in the end we are all just people. This is mainly my own opinion so dont take it so heavily.

 

If people take PnW seriously, they need to lighten up.  This isn't a political forum where people debate the merits of ideologies.  This is a game where ideologies are aesthetic at best.  We don't even have thorough civilian populations where ideologies would really be practiced. 

 

For example, when you look at NPO, yea, it technically taxes at 100% to run a command economy, but there's no private property in this game anyway where people can invest their wealth in the pursuit of free time to be happy with luxuries.  Likewise, there's no legal system that administers civil rights in how the civilians in its member nations interact with each other.  It's not like people have a legitimate reason to declare war for the sake of international human rights.

 

The bottomline is KT treated this game as real life when deciding to breakaway from Iron Guard.  It should know better than that.

[Shiho Nishizumi]

No. KT made a decision based on what would best serve them as an alliance in the long run, not based on ideologies. If the ideological part of IG had been an issue for KT, they wouldn't have signed them to begin with. They were fine with the theme, not so much with people in the alliance taking it too seriously and embargo'ing jewish/communist/etc nations, amongst other actions.

 

Dropping IG was a pragmatic decision, not an ideological one. Quit moaning about 'muh real life' as if it was a factor on this decision, or any other in which you have brought it up.

Edited June 8, 2017 by Shiho Nishizumi

[Utter Nutter]

Here is my 5 cents to this issue.

 

It is strategically disadvantageous to choose a theme the general populace will dissaprove of.

1. by making a facist theme you instantly make an enemy of all the people belonging to a minority.

2. this people are gov and members of most of the alliances, on both side of our polarized system.

3. it has been proven over and over again by world history and by this game's history than standing alone against the world is a recipe for failure.

 

If you are racist or facist but you are smart, you wouldn't be freely publishing it in the forums or chat servers on discord because you would understand the simple fact that by doing that, you would gain the hatred of most people, and those who don't care would play along to follow the masses.

In your brief history you have achieved all steps a smart person could have predicted, you have turned the entire world against you, you have lost your allies and you will soon get rolled and die a very painful death.

 

respectfully

 

Emerald Bank

Edited June 8, 2017 by Seb

[Thalmor]

Looks like KT's a flip-flopper.  It dives into something controversial and doesn't choose to stick to its guns. 

 

Sometimes, you have to remember PnW's just a game.  

 

To quote you from another thread: https://politicsandwar.com/forums/index.php?/topic/20016-iron-sail-accord-and-the-iron-knights-brotherhood/?p=329561

 

"KT basically just signed its own death sentence."

 

Now, I know you're just talking out of your own ass because you're a troll, but let's assume you're correct. Let's assume we actually did what you're criticizing us for not doing and help out IG. Well, then, by your own brilliant epiphany, it would've been our 'death sentence'

 

To quote myself from another thread: https://politicsandwar.com/forums/index.php?/topic/20252-announcement-from-farkistan/?p=330986

 

"As leader of my alliance, I have to do what's best for my alliance. Ensuring KT's long-term FA standards is more important than protecting an alliance that's going to be burned either way."

 

Given the political circumstances, along with IG's public moral standing, it just wasn't seen as a battle worth becoming martyrs over. Most people seem to understand this (any reasonable person would).

 

The bottomline is KT treated this game as real life when deciding to breakaway from Iron Guard.  It should know better than that.

 

"How dare you take the game seriously!"

[Buorhann]

The only reason why fascism is a problem here on the OWF is due to three things:  Either those who regularly side with the SJW camp, people who are fans of socialism/communism, or the fact that people often link up racism with fascism.

 

Other than that, there's no real problem of fascism here because it doesn't do anything in-game necessary.  It's just a roleplay bit just as much as those who are part of the communist bloc in-game.

 

However, whenever people choose to play off a fascist government here, they often take up imagery of Nazi Germany or alter images to be similar in style.  Which boggles my mind (Just as much as those who pull a communist alliance here too).

 

 

Are people incapable of playing off a fascist alliance here without having to rely on Nazi Germany or using off computer modern day derogatory terminology?  Seems like those who want to play off a extremist right-wing alliance/nation suffer from a lack of creativity or they're just lazy about it, honestly (This also goes in line with the whole communist spiel too).

Edited June 8, 2017 by Buorhann

[----]

However, whenever people choose to play off a fascist government here, they often take up imagery of Nazi Germany or alter images to be similar in style.  Which boggles my mind (Just as much as those who pull a communist alliance here too).

 

Are people incapable of playing off a fascist alliance here without having to rely on Nazi Germany or using off computer modern day derogatory terminology?  Seems like those who want to play off a extremist right-wing alliance/nation suffer from a lack of creativity or they're just lazy about it, honestly (This also goes in line with the whole communist spiel too).

 

You are quite right. If you really want to be politically creative, don’t simply copy and paste real-life regimes and merely insert your nation’s name in the blank space. 

 

One thing that I have observed with fascist nations is that they will use NSDAP-style imagery, aesthetics, and political language, but without explicit reference to Nazism, while defending themselves as merely 'fascist.’ In my opinion, it’s just a way for crypto-Nazis to avoid the scrutiny of the game’s anti-Nazi rule. If you want to be a respected fascist, develop your own national symbols and imagery, don’t simply turn your country into another iteration of the Third Reich, especially if you’re not German. Oh, I forgot, promoting real-life irridentism will not win you new friends, especially among players who actually are from those countries that you publicly seek to undermine/destroy.  

 

The exact same thing applies with the leftist nations/alliances in this game. How many times do we see some combination of ’Soviet’ or other USSR clones? Come on. How many Soviet this or thats have we seen? If you really hate private economics, develop your own theories/find new theories, don’t simply parrot the Soviet/Maoist model. Be creative. The Soviets did enough damage and people are simply sick of this blind admiration for that system.

 

To summarise, if you’re going to adopt without (signification) modification a theme/ideology that is well-hated in real-life (or forbidden in-game), and you actually preach those ideas (irridentism, international proletarian revolution), don’t expect for others to cry when you encounter misfortunes. This comes from a former member of 2 failed socialist alliances, who was (and maybe still is) quite an ideological arse.

[CrispyGeneral]

You are quite right. If you really want to be politically creative, don’t simply copy and paste real-life regimes and merely insert your nation’s name in the blank space. 

Like what youre doing with Poland as a communist regime? Kek

Edited June 9, 2017 by Crispy General

[G'Kar]

[Buorhann]

https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=69732

 

I got a fan.

[ComradeMilton]

Islam and mass immigration are the biggest threats to western civilization which is deeply connected to terrorism and higher rates of crime. No point solving other issues if you can't enjoy the world. I'm a firm believer in people reaping what they sow so if you think terrorist attacks aren't a problem then no one will mind if the next one kills you as its not a big deal. 

These exist in every religion in the world; often in worse forms.

 

 

It would be good to kill a lot of bad Muslims, not just ISIS as a lot of Muslims hate gays, treat women and minorities terribly. Bad people fighting other bad people (ISIS) is a win win situation. It would be good if we could do it in such a fashion as not killing 40 people at the time we find a target.

[----]

Like what youre doing with Poland as a communist regime? Kek

I'll bite.

 

When was real-life Poland last referred to as 'The Most Serene Republic' (Najjaśniejsza Rzeczpospolita)? Certainly not during the period from 1944-1989 during the Peoples' Republic (Polska Rzeczpospolita Ludowa- PRL). 'Most Serene' meaning 'completely sovereign' (look it up) was an unofficial designation of the first Rzeczpospolita, a dynastic and later elective monarchy. And you must have known that 'Elekt' (Elect) was alternative style for Poland's king when the kings were chosen by the szlachta (nobility).

 

If I were replicating the real-life communist regime, I would be leading a 'Peoples' Republic of Poland', giving myself the title 'First Secretary' or 'Chairman', and I probably would designate atheism under Poland's state religion (see my nation page). Finally, I would have a national designation of 'Communist Republic', 'Communist Dictatorship', 'Socialist Republic', etc.

 

I use 'Communist Monarchy' for a few reasons. First, and most important, Alex never made 'Socialist Monarchy' an option. Second, I lead an elective (non-dynastic) monarchy. Third, under this elective monarchy, the Polish state, not private individuals nor the working class, owns the means of production for the sake of furthering the Polish Peoples' political, social, cultural, and economic independence, with the ideological goal of creating a genuine Polish civilisation. Third positionism, perhaps, but certainly not a replica of a Soviet-style communist regime.

[Charles Bolivar]

A Tropico dictator themed AA with a generalissimo as a leader could be quite interesting for once instead of multiple reincarnations of the third reich.

 

We must be on double digits by now surely for pseudo Nazi Germany AAs.

 

Truth be told, I don't really mind the fascist role play, it's the racist tendencies I abhor.I would love a war with a bunch of folks masquerading as fascists instead of the usual trolls we usually end up facing every few months.

[ReaverIC]

Anyway, if we're talking about how people should play this game, No one has the final say. If people would take it seriously or not is the player's discretion. So stop being pushy with your ideals Argotitan. It just looks like your whining.

[Dubayoo]

No. KT made a decision based on what would best serve them as an alliance in the long run, not based on ideologies. If the ideological part of IG had been an issue for KT, they wouldn't have signed them to begin with. They were fine with the theme, not so much with people in the alliance taking it too seriously and embargo'ing jewish/communist/etc nations, amongst other actions.

 

Dropping IG was a pragmatic decision, not an ideological one. Quit moaning about 'muh real life' as if it was a factor on this decision, or any other in which you have brought it up.

 

KT made a decision based on anticipating that other players don't distinguish the IC-OOC dichotomy.  That's not a pragmatic decision.  That's realizing how other players are OOC idealists and not standing up for the right thing in distinguishing between OOC idealism and IC gameplay

 

Everything else you said here is gibberish.

Anyway, if we're talking about how people should play this game, No one has the final say. If people would take it seriously or not is the player's discretion. So stop being pushy with your ideals Argotitan. It just looks like your whining.

 

What ideals have I pushed here?

[Dubayoo]

To quote you from another thread: https://politicsandwar.com/forums/index.php?/topic/20016-iron-sail-accord-and-the-iron-knights-brotherhood/?p=329561

 

"KT basically just signed its own death sentence."

 

Now, I know you're just talking out of your own ass because you're a troll, but let's assume you're correct. Let's assume we actually did what you're criticizing us for not doing and help out IG. Well, then, by your own brilliant epiphany, it would've been our 'death sentence'

 

To quote myself from another thread: https://politicsandwar.com/forums/index.php?/topic/20252-announcement-from-farkistan/?p=330986

 

"As leader of my alliance, I have to do what's best for my alliance. Ensuring KT's long-term FA standards is more important than protecting an alliance that's going to be burned either way."

 

Given the political circumstances, along with IG's public moral standing, it just wasn't seen as a battle worth becoming martyrs over. Most people seem to understand this (any reasonable person would).

 

 

"How dare you take the game seriously!"

 

Really?

 

The point is you made a bad decision, but instead of realizing the bad decision you made, you just flip-flopped on it.

 

When you make a bad decision, you own up to it.  Not doing so suggests a lack of commitment. It goes from bad to worse.

[ReaverIC]

I

KT made a decision based on anticipating that other players don't distinguish the IC-OOC dichotomy.  That's not a pragmatic decision.  That's realizing how other players are OOC idealists and not standing up for the right thing in distinguishing between OOC idealism and IC gameplay

 

Everything else you said here is gibberish.

 

What ideals have I pushed here?

You do get what I say? I hope?. To make it simpler, stop dictating what should and what shouldn't be done by players here. They know its a game and the players here have different approaches how to play this game. Even if they're trolls.

[Shiho Nishizumi]

A Tropico dictator themed AA with a generalissimo as a leader could be quite interesting for once instead of multiple reincarnations of the third reich.

We must be on double digits by now surely for pseudo Nazi Germany AAs.

Truth be told, I don't really mind the fascist role play, it's the racist tendencies I abhor.I would love a war with a bunch of folks masquerading as fascists instead of the usual trolls we usually end up facing every few months.

Viva El Presidente!

 

Tropico is such a good game tbh.

[Shiho Nishizumi]

KT made a decision based on anticipating that other players don't distinguish the IC-OOC dichotomy.  That's not a pragmatic decision.  That's realizing how other players are OOC idealists and not standing up for the right thing in distinguishing between OOC idealism and IC gameplay

 

Everything else you said here is gibberish.

 

 

So, you're trying to excuse racism and doxxing as IC roleplaying or some shit. Wonderful.

 

Guess I've got a good reason to simply ignore whatever bullshit you will ever spew in the future.

[Dubayoo]

The only reason why fascism is a problem here on the OWF is due to three things:  Either those who regularly side with the SJW camp, people who are fans of socialism/communism, or the fact that people often link up racism with fascism.

 

Other than that, there's no real problem of fascism here because it doesn't do anything in-game necessary.  It's just a roleplay bit just as much as those who are part of the communist bloc in-game.

 

However, whenever people choose to play off a fascist government here, they often take up imagery of Nazi Germany or alter images to be similar in style.  Which boggles my mind (Just as much as those who pull a communist alliance here too).

 

 

Are people incapable of playing off a fascist alliance here without having to rely on Nazi Germany or using off computer modern day derogatory terminology?  Seems like those who want to play off a extremist right-wing alliance/nation suffer from a lack of creativity or they're just lazy about it, honestly (This also goes in line with the whole communist spiel too).

 

I've played browser based strategy games for 15 years and have seen this trend throughout the games I've played.  It's not limited to PnW by any stretch of the imagination.

 

However, what I've also seen is many admins become tolerant of Jewish symbolism on an IC basis that has no plausible gameplay element.  If you ask admins to correct this, it gets ignored at best.  I haven't seen that here yet in PnW, but throughout the genre, it seems that people get fed up with how Jewish attributes are permitted and how they often become centerpieces of how players may socialize within the gameworld.  The Nazi element is really a reaction against this blurring of the IC-OOC dichotomy.

 

The bottomline, regardless, is that games like this are often played by children who have wise guy and punkish attitude problems.  Their goal is to escape the real world of responsibilities to get a sense of superiority.  That's why far left ideologies are permitted while far right ideologies are restricted.  Communism is looked upon as an ideology where those who contribute nothing still get something.  Nazism is looked upon as an ideology that bullies others who don't contribute something the powerful want.

[Dubayoo]

So, you're trying to excuse racism and doxxing as IC roleplaying or some shit. Wonderful.

 

Guess I've got a good reason to simply ignore whatever bullshit you will ever spew in the future.

 

No... KT made the decision before the doxxing issue became evident. 

[Dubayoo]

I

You do get what I say? I hope?. To make it simpler, stop dictating what should and what shouldn't be done by players here. They know its a game and the players here have different approaches how to play this game. Even if they're trolls.

 

Obviously, those trolls are idealists.  They're not practicing the game for what it is.  Instead, they're pretending it to be something that it's not.

[Odin]

blabla

 

Protecting someone is one thing.

Seeing the protectorate taunt for obvious results is another thing.

 

Our political Discord channels are known for being opinion tolerant and that won't change. Everyone's responsible for his own content in there.

But people shouldn't forget that it is public. And every political spectrum has access to there. And subjective ooc feelings will get transported into the game.

[Dubayoo]

Protecting someone is one thing.

Seeing the protectorate taunt for obvious results is another thing.

 

Our political Discord channels are known for being opinion tolerant and that won't change. Everyone's responsible for his own content in there.

But people shouldn't forget that it is public. And every political spectrum has access to there. And subjective ooc feelings will get transported into the game.

 

If you anticipate OOC feelings are being transported into the game, then you should know that something else needs to be done far beyond Iron Guard.

 

It's disappointing that you don't do what that something else is.

Edited June 9, 2017 by Argotitan