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Issues in school


Sailor Jerry
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Hello Orbis.  Most of you know me as the old fart who leaves mostly sarcastic posts around these forums.  For now though, I'd like to be a little serious and get some insights from some of our younger members.....middle and high schoolers and those who have fairly recently left school.  So let me paint you the picture.  Yesterday after I left work and was driving home, my wife called me in a panic with a story my 13 year old (8th grade) son had told her when he got home from school.  Apparently, another student (who my son mentors/tutors in math) made a statement that he was going to come in and shoot up the school.  A little later in the day, a rumor starts going around that there is/was an actual "Hit List" and my son was #4 on this kids list.  Needless to say, it was brought to the schools attention by other students (not my son) and the student was placed on 3 days out of school suspension.  By the time I heard about it, it was to late to call and talk with the principle so I just called and talked him a little while ago.  He said he couldn't go into to much detail but the school (and district) are taking it very seriously.  When I asked him about "The List" he informed me that they did not come across any sort of written list and the student denied that there was one.  So I asked the principle what was going to be done when the student's suspension was over and he comes back to school.....will the resource officer be checking/frisking him everyday and checking his locker periodically?  His response...."Those are excellent ideas" and that "we have protocols in place to deal with this sort of situation."  Now mind you, this is a rural area school........the intermediate, middle and high school are all in one (all be it a big one) building with each grade being about 100 to 120 students each.

 

So I guess my question to those still in school.....has anyone here ever been involved/around any of this sort of stuff......and if so, how did you and/or your school handle it?  What would you do if the student was coming back to school on Friday and you were in 3 or classes with him?

 

I know there might be some Trolls out there waiting to pounce on this for whatever reason, but please, lets focus on this issue......as I'm sure it is or has or will happen again in the future, so some helpful discussion would probably be pretty beneficial to quite a few folks.  Thank in advance.  

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When I was in school, there would be threats like these occasionally. Both the district and law enforcement always took it very seriously, and were aggressive enough with their actions that the person who made the threat would usually be caught within 24 hours of making it. In my experience, each of these threats were always empty. The furthest it ever went was when someone brought bullets into the school and dumped them all over the floor, which caused an internal lockdown and eventually early dismissal. You can't always be sure that the threat someone makes is a hollow one, though. Perhaps if you met with other parents who also had concerns about their child's safety, you could present them to the school district and have them take more aggressive action against the kid who made the threat.

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Jeez thats horrible :(

 

If I were you I'd go as high up as possible because that's really serious. I know if I were a parent I wouldn't accept for one second knowing that kid would be allowed anywhere near my child/children again.

 

If your school district has a superintendent or something I'd maybe go to them?

 

Im in 10th grade currently, so I'm not entirely sure how far you could/would be able to go with it

But I'd atleast start there if possible

 

Have some empathy. A troubled kid who hasn't hurt anyone needs time with a counselor and an intervention in his life circumstances by responsible adults, not a permanent bar from public education starting in grade school. Social isolation and harsh treatment make it more likely, not less, that he will break. 

 

As for Sailor Jerry, he should teach his kid to understand signs that one of his classmates might have an acute breakdown, and teach him also how to react in that kind of situation. And instead of urging the school to have the suspended kid followed around by a cop, maybe he should ask the principal to have experts meet with all students to discuss school shootings, how to intervene with troubled children, and what steps teachers and kids can take to be safe. 

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Have some empathy. A troubled kid who hasn't hurt anyone needs time with a counselor and an intervention in his life circumstances by responsible adults, not a permanent bar from public education starting in grade school. Social isolation and harsh treatment make it more likely, not less, that he will break. 

 

As for Sailor Jerry, he should teach his kid to understand signs that one of his classmates might have an acute breakdown, and teach him also how to react in that kind of situation. And instead of urging the school to have the suspended kid followed around by a cop, maybe he should ask the principal to have experts meet with all students to discuss school shootings, how to intervene with troubled children, and what steps teachers and kids can take to be safe. 

All good points.  I think meeting with either school (or non-school) could probably be very beneficial and to your first part, that might be part of the schools protocol....I don't know.  I wouldn't say having a cop follow him around everywhere, just check his bags everyday at the beginning of school at the schools foyer and random checks of his locker.  As to teaching kids to recognize the signs of someone getting ready to have an "acute breakdown" and how to react in that kind of situation would be a daunting task as every kid is different and every situation is different.  From "Freeze", "Fight" or "Flight" people react differently.  In the same situation, person "A" might fight, while person "B" freezes.  In another situation, person "A" might take "Flight" while person "B" fights.  It's hard to say how to react or what to do to a bunch of teenagers.  Hell, 20 years in the Navy doing security work as a collateral duty, we trained and trained in various scenarios....schools can't really take the time to train for varying or fluid situations.  

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All good points.  I think meeting with either school (or non-school) could probably be very beneficial and to your first part, that might be part of the schools protocol....I don't know.  I wouldn't say having a cop follow him around everywhere, just check his bags everyday at the beginning of school at the schools foyer and random checks of his locker.  As to teaching kids to recognize the signs of someone getting ready to have an "acute breakdown" and how to react in that kind of situation would be a daunting task as every kid is different and every situation is different.  From "Freeze", "Fight" or "Flight" people react differently.  In the same situation, person "A" might fight, while person "B" freezes.  In another situation, person "A" might take "Flight" while person "B" fights.  It's hard to say how to react or what to do to a bunch of teenagers.  Hell, 20 years in the Navy doing security work as a collateral duty, we trained and trained in various scenarios....schools can't really take the time to train for varying or fluid situations.  

 

School shootings aren't a new issue. There is lots of training out there for mass shooting / mass casualty events. I'm sure you remember bomb threats from when you were in school - the school reaction was to basically slowly and lazily walk kids out of the building into the adjacent parking lot, wait for a few fire department reps to walk through the school and give the all clear, and then everyone went back to class. The modern protocols to respond to threats are drastically different - electronic lockdown of classrooms (no evacuations), police sweeps through every inch of school buildings, significant training to teachers on how to minimize risk, hardened physical plants (strong doors with puncture resistant and opaque windows, video monitoring equipment, etc.), and so on. 

 

Bottom line - smart people have spent decades working on this issue and have developed a deep book of measures to mitigate risk. Don't assume that there are no useful and effective steps that can be taken other than painting a social target on one kid by having him frisked and surveilled indefinitely by police. 

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School shootings aren't a new issue. There is lots of training out there for mass shooting / mass casualty events. I'm sure you remember bomb threats from when you were in school - the school reaction was to basically slowly and lazily walk kids out of the building into the adjacent parking lot, wait for a few fire department reps to walk through the school and give the all clear, and then everyone went back to class. The modern protocols to respond to threats are drastically different - electronic lockdown of classrooms (no evacuations), police sweeps through every inch of school buildings, significant training to teachers on how to minimize risk, hardened physical plants (strong doors with puncture resistant and opaque windows, video monitoring equipment, etc.), and so on. 

 

Bottom line - smart people have spent decades working on this issue and have developed a deep book of measures to mitigate risk. Don't assume that there are no useful and effective steps that can be taken other than painting a social target on one kid by having him frisked and surveilled indefinitely by police. 

Just me, I understand some of the newer techniques of police sweeps through buildings (we did the same thing in the Navy for intruders on the ships) and all the hardened doors, opaque windows, etc, etc., but if the kid brings a weapon into the school and waits until lunch, when a whole mass of other kids are all in the lunch room and he comes in and starts shooting......how does any of that other stuff help.  I agree though, if the shooting occurs during a class period when most all kids are in their classrooms, that's one thing.  During lunch or at an assembly when lots of folks are crammed into an area with fairly limited means of egress......that's a whole different ball game.

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Our school has had a situation like this and 2 more different situations recently

 

One kid said he was gonna shoot up the school on snapchat while showing off his gun and guitar collection, he was expelled the very next day.

 

A girl and her 2 friends mixed weed into cornbread and ate it, throwing up into the toilets. They posted a video of them doing it on one of the girls' finsta. They were all expelled the next day too.

 

Lastly 2 6th grade boys (our school is a high school and a grammar school, I'm in 10th grade) sexually assaulted a girl the same age and the boys were only suspended, but the girl was EXPELLED? Where's the logic in that?!

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Firstly, that is honestly terrible to hear. I honestly hope nothing ill happens to the school or anyone for that matter.

 

Secondly, here is a scenario that happened my last semester of highschool. (Keep in mind this is Canada)

 

Teacher sights a student with a weapon.

Police are called

Lockdown

Special Response Team sweeps the school

No weapon or student armed with weapon is found (To my knowledge)

Lockdown is lifted

End

 

From what I heard it wasn't a weapon rather a student talking about one and waving some sort of an item. Shortly after a letter was written for the students to deliver to their parents about the lockdown.

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Well, I'm out of school but I'll share an experience I recall. When I was in eighth grade, a few kids from the high school were seen in a photo of them with guns and drugs on Myspace. It didn't help that the photo came up literally after a homecoming dance so the school believed they had weapons there as well. The kids were expelled for it and the high school stepped up security (student ids were always checked, security officers always at the doors, and school lockdown drills were more frequent). It definitely helped calm the parents who thought the school wasn't the safest (my brother actually atteneded the school and talked about how security was a joke before that incident)

 

Don't think your kid's school needs to go that far. But can I also think that if you know the kid's name maybe track down the parents and talk to them to see if they're also doing anything. Not to antagonize them or their kid or anything but it might be best to have a discussion with them about your fears and why you want to make sure all ends are covered.

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When I was in school, there were a few shooting threats. In high school, I was at a shooting range one day shooting my M1A and the district police officer from my school saw me. The following monday, they called me down to the counselor's office and she asked me a bunch of questions. A few days later, one of my teachers asked me why the counselor was asking questions about me. I guess they decided it was nothing since I didn't make any threats, I was on an actual shooting competition team, the gun was wood/not black, I was using a 10 round magazine, the gun is long so it would be hard to move freely through doors, and/or it probably helped that my teachers liked me that year. Later, in college, someone mistook a camera tripod for a rifle. We went on lockdown for 15-20 minutes before they announced there was no weapon. 

 

Anyway, if you are seriously concerned about the other kid taking action, you could consider buying a bullet proof plate to put in your kid's bag. I know there are a few sites that sell plates designed for bags. I think that is going a little too far, but I'm not a parent. I don't know anything about the school or the classes your kid shares with the other, but I think your kid is safe being 4th on the other kid's list (assuming he goes in order IF he does go postal). 

 

Anyway, I hope nothing happens. I would hate to become a parent and lose my kid to another kid. Best wishes to you and your kid. 

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I remember a particular incident similar to this which happened in the 7th grade,basically some guys were playing a makeshift game of football when one of the footballers meant to take the football but accidentally tripped another footballer,causing him to get quite a nasty bruise on his leg,after that the guy who got tripped (who was a troublesome,but popular person) said he'd get a few of his friends and kill the guy who tripped him and 2 of his teammates(with a gun),so the other footballers told the principal about it and the next morning...well,the amount of security that was everywhere,it could've been compared to the Berlin Wall,routine searches,monitoring and at one point,a total lockdown were only some of the measures that were taken as a result.The guy who made the threat didn't come to school and by the time it was Monday the troublesome footballer seemed to have forgotten everything,thankfully no serious harm was done.

 

As for that hitlist,don't worry (that much).Most of these death threats are simply jokes meant to scare the kid into submission.If you're genuinely worried about your kid getting hurt though it's best to get your kid to avoid danger at any and all costs,two good suggestions are to try and pick up the person quickly after school is dismissed and make sure he avoids wandering around by himself on school grounds and on the streets,there are a few other things you could try but as a last resort,consider consulting a martial arts expert.I hope everything goes well for you and your child,it's deeply saddening to see young lives robbed for absurdly petty reasons.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I was a senior when Columbine occurred. Prior to that a bomb threat would mean a simple evacuation from the building and then hanging out while the police did a sweep. I was often in the music room whenever not in class so I was usually in my conductor's car when these things happened. When I returned to talk to a couple of my teachers it was astonishingly different. Still no permanent police presence (the OP's school sounds close to mine as far as class size), but lots of patrols by teachers patrolling the halls and a lot of added alarm systems, phones in all rooms for the teachers (which also provided assignments a student might've missed during an absence and some seriously heavy doors in case of lockdown.

 

If I were you I wouldn't worry too much about it. People have kind of overreacted in my opinion, but with that comes a great deal more security. As students they're the school is serving in loco parentis so they can almost literally do anything with or without the student's permission including regular searches of their person, backpacks (are those still allowed? honestly have no idea) locker searches, dog sweeps in case someone tries to conceal supplies for such a thing somewhere outside of their permitted storage areas.) As long as the local police and sheriff's department are aware of the risk it shouldn't need much additional activity to make sure any attempts at attack are foiled and they can (and I would guess already have at least once) execute a search warrant on the student's house to check for how seriously to treat that risk.

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