Seven Kingdoms Declaration of War

[Tywin Lannister]

Eh I mean I don't blame them for going to the table and accepting peace. Even after we and the others entered they would have continued to take losses (win or lose you tend to take a lot so even the best case scenario for them after our entrance is costly) and they were going through some internal reforms that made the whole thing more shaky. In the end I suppose it did make us look bad as some people interpreted it as an unwillingness on their allies to enter but I'm willing to trade that for their well being if its what was thought best. Some of the ex-SK in TEst could probably confirm that if anybody really cared, since they have access to the Farewell forum where our last departure admitted to leaving to avoid having to fight TEst, as we had been prepping Funny thing was the war entered before our blitz, and the alliance he joined got raided by TEst (him included) almost immediately after.

 

As for the second bit I'll concede that then. It was poor phrasing on my part and to be clear then this is not about honor or demonstrating our prowess or anything. Taken as such its a fair point to criticize it and I certainly wouldn't disagree with that line of reasoning. The intent was just to say "we were given a demand, and we refused as we usually do. So now its war." Gotta have something a bit more eloquent for a scroll though.

 

 

But you were the one who was trying to arrange that peace :S

 

Hah, I'm pretty sure I was one of the guys who hit him.  

[Prefonteen]

Friendly reminder that Jacob Moore (Eumir) does  not represent hogwarts with his giggity gig trollity troll.

[Prefontaine]

Pay Back Time!

 

Attacking a disbanding alliance whose leader was about 29 hours shy from going to perma VM.

 

Stay strong, SK. Not sure you can win this one. 

[kalev60]

So the moral of this is? Do not hope to extort successfully when you just been gang-banned by the world-police?

[Micchan]

There's a lack of Mad Max gifs in this thread

 

[Kastor]

Eh I mean I don't blame them for going to the table and accepting peace. Even after we and the others entered they would have continued to take losses (win or lose you tend to take a lot so even the best case scenario for them after our entrance is costly) and they were going through some internal reforms that made the whole thing more shaky. In the end I suppose it did make us look bad as some people interpreted it as an unwillingness on their allies to enter but I'm willing to trade that for their well being if its what was thought best. Some of the ex-SK in TEst could probably confirm that if anybody really cared, since they have access to the Farewell forum where our last departure admitted to leaving to avoid having to fight TEst, as we had been prepping Funny thing was the war entered before our blitz, and the alliance he joined got raided by TEst (him included) almost immediately after.

 

As for the second bit I'll concede that then. It was poor phrasing on my part and to be clear then this is not about honor or demonstrating our prowess or anything. Taken as such its a fair point to criticize it and I certainly wouldn't disagree with that line of reasoning. The intent was just to say "we were given a demand, and we refused as we usually do. So now its war." Gotta have something a bit more eloquent for a scroll though.

 

 

 

But you were the one who was trying to arrange that peace :S

It still made y'all look weak

[Tywin Lannister]

So the moral of this is? Do not hope to extort successfully when you just been gang-banned by the world-police?

 

That's a good moral to go with but doesn't make sense in this particular scenario. The way I see it, it was a hit and miss. TEst was disbanding anyway, so there were no serious repercussions of it really. If it worked, would've been glorious. Otherwise, no harm done. 

[Karrde]

God it's like suez all over again.

[DragonK]

 

 

The Seven Kingdoms is an old alliance. Over the years we have seen many leaders, and we have been many things to many people; allies and enemies, friends and villains, leaders and isolationists. One thing we have never been are push overs. We do not take kindly to being threatened, and we do not give in to threats of arms. Something Terminus Est is about to find out the hard way.

 

As some may have seen, roughly two weeks ago one of our members raided a 1 man micro alliance and made off with over a billion in loot. As it turns out, this nation had been sent from TEst to hide and guard a share of their bank. A clever move, and aside from the one hiccup, one that worked quite well for them. Nevertheless they were understandably unenthused about losing the assets.

 

Enter Prefontaine, who approached us with a request to return the resources that were looted. We refused and were given the PW equivalent of the classic mob extortion scheme, wherein we were informed that soon enough TEst, lovers of battle that they are, will be looking for a new war. We will be very "popular" targets due to the raid and found ourselves at war. Unless of course we gave it back. Yes Pre this is a nice place we've got here. It would be a shame if something were to happen to it. But we don't plan on paying you to ensure that.

 

As far as we're concerned our member engaged in a perfectly valid raid and was entitled to the money. At the time the nation in question was not in TEst but was in a 1 man alliance flying the now defunct VoC affiliation with no visible ties to TEst. Moreover he had previously raided us, so we fail to see why any counter raid on our part and its resulting winnings should be illegitimate. Even if he had been in TEst at the time, the fact that we were being raided alone is enough for us to consider Jawas strike legitimate. It's a risk that comes with guarding your money that way, and amplified by your raids on us. As for Jawas post on the OWF which was mentioned....some may consider the gloating in poor taste. But if you are triggered by banter on the forums, you may be playing the wrong game.

 

The timing of this war is not good for TEst. It is true they are recently coming out of another conflict. But we aren't the ones who issued the ultimatum. We are the ones responding to it.

 

TL:DR: We could give back the resources looted or face war when they got over the rebuild. We chose war, and we decided to have it now instead. The Seven Kingdoms officially declares war on Terminus Est.

 

I blame Jawa for this too. Kudos to him tough, he proved to be better raider than me (well, more dedicated to game than I could in this period of my life).

[DragonK]

Gonna stick with this talking point? They reached peace after 2 days of fighting before we, polaris, nights watch and loarderon were going to blitz. I don't know why things were resolved to fast, I wasn't in those talks. But I don't think its unreasonable to expect allies who were caught unprepared to take a few days to militarize (I admit we were woefully unprepared for that) and then hit when they have the chance to actually change the impact of the war. In this case things were wrapped up almost immediately before that could happen.

 

 

 

 

Its not literally a direct threat in the same way the typical "hate to see something happen to this place" isn't technically either. No its just, you know, we'll build back up from this in a bit. When that happens we'll want to start a new war. You'll be really popular as a target if you don't give this back. But if you do give it back I bet you wont be so popular. Its not exactly subtle in its implications.

 

I'm not, to be clear, offering any righteous indignation or moral anger over this. Its a lot of money to lose and its not unreasonable to want to try and get it back, even if it was legitimately raided. This is, after all, a game of politics. And so he chose a political gamble. Will be back down under the threat of force or not? Given the perception people have we were scared of them before, and given even a winning war stands to do more damage to us than what you asked for, its not unreasonable to think we might choose to surrender the resources. Maybe other alliances would. Maybe we would with other leaders or in other circumstances, though I doubt it. But it any case this time we chose not to. Now we either let your suggested course of events - wherein you recover from the papers war, look to start a new one, and choose the overwhelmingly popular SK option - take place, or we start that war now.

 

This is not a "good" fight. This is not a "fair" fight. We are not looking to demonstrate our military power or anything (how could this be so given the militarization disparities?) We're just speeding up the options you gave us so we can get it over with now rather than later.

Few points if I may, I was aware of full scope of your counter operation, we were ready to preempt it.  Valiria in particualr had shitty opsec adn lots of crucial info just floated to me.

pre and Roz decided to dump decision about peace onto me. After Bluebear begging me, quite patheticlly and cringy, and Roz pushing for peace I gave in. Ahd I choosen otherwise TEst would have just preempted SK, and there were others that were willing to handle polaris for me. But what happeend happened.

Also yeah, leader asking for alliance loot back, since it stole close to half iirc, and Jawa is really dedicated and logs in every time he needs to be on to do something. I wondered if guy ever slept, almsot beat him by doing 4 hours a day sleep schedule for a week. Work !@#$ed me up in the end. But yeah saying that they'd be less inclined to roll you if yo ugave it back means that. But now that you're rolling them when they are down, you jsut made their blakclist, congrats.

 

If we had requested them to join they would have done so without a second of hesitation, and they made that fact very clear to us at the time. We decided as an alliance not to call them in. Absolutely ridiculous that people believe we were pleading and begging for help and SK refused. if they had betrayed us like that do you really think we would have merged into them?

 

Oh please. I do remember you threatening me with them coming in. And you said it yourself that all that begging that made me cringe internally was so they could prepare and join, aka you were trying to stall for time.

I never said Valyria wanted SK to come, but rather they needed to do so, easy on the assumptions mate. You guys got rolled and humiliated. Polaris had taken out Arrgh and if SK had entered and warred TEst, along with updeclares from your allies, you guys had a good chance to actually turn it into something. You literally missed out on the chance to become a real potential 3rd sphere force due to SK being too scared back then and have ended up as a joke instead. 

They stood no chance of winning, but it wasn't about it. I kept hearing how great GOT sphere is and how they'd take down t$ and TKR. They kept trying to get me and other paperless to join them. They persistantly asked me to join and bring RW and TEst with me to destory the hegemoney. I wasn't seeing any concrete plans or bright ideas so I decioded to test the said sphere to see if they were worthy to be our allys. And raid, raid is always good reason. They crumbled on day 1, and I simple scratched the GOT sphere as having any potential in future. Mensa rolling SK was just final nail in coffin to taht idea in my mind.

[Tywin Lannister]

I blame Jawa for this too. Kudos to him tough, he proved to be better raider than me (well, more dedicated to game than I could in this period of my life).

 

True that, he was very dedicated. He wasn't able to beige me and Seabasstion though, otherwise he got em all. But he did very well with fortify to escape getting beiged by me. A few seconds late and he was gone. 

[DragonK]

True that, he was very dedicated. He wasn't able to beige me and Seabasstion though, otherwise he got em all. But he did very well with fortify to escape getting beiged by me. A few seconds late and he was gone. 

Well I got a fair rematch with him. Adn I manged to out-not-sleep him. Had 4 maps, took 10 minutes of my daily 30 minutes allowed break on work and he had 12 resitance and I had ships. Using phone, 20 minutes after turn change since i was busy with work and didn't notice time. Attack, failed, you need money to pay bills, you nation is locked until !@#$ you. I sold some shit waited 2 hours for bills. And he was online, fortified like mad. Cam back home was tryign to bait him into attacking me so he doesn't fotify, as long as he didn't have 12 maps I was safe from being beiged with my 41 resitance. Was exaxsuted from alck of sleep and work, deicded to take a nap for hour or two, when he was at 8 maps. Woke up the next ingame day with him having potentially 13 maps. Beiged me with 42 resitiance taken in 4 actions.

 

EDIT: Yeah I could have fortified once before going to sleep, but that'd just make him fortify out of my reach as well. Was palying a game of bait and lure. And I lost it.

Edited January 30, 2017 by DragonK

[Mikey]

1. Few points if I may, I was aware of full scope of your counter operation, we were ready to preempt it.  Valiria in particualr had shitty opsec adn lots of crucial info just floated to me.

pre and Roz decided to dump decision about peace onto me. After Bluebear begging me, quite patheticlly and cringy, and Roz pushing for peace I gave in. Ahd I choosen otherwise TEst would have just preempted SK, and there were others that were willing to handle polaris for me. But what happeend happened.

 

2. Also yeah, leader asking for alliance loot back, since it stole close to half iirc, and Jawa is really dedicated and logs in every time he needs to be on to do something. I wondered if guy ever slept, almsot beat him by doing 4 hours a day sleep schedule for a week. Work !@#$ed me up in the end. But yeah saying that they'd be less inclined to roll you if yo ugave it back means that. But now that you're rolling them when they are down, you jsut made their blakclist, congrats.

 

3 I kept hearing how great GOT sphere is and how they'd take down t$ and TKR. They kept trying to get me and other paperless to join them. They persistantly asked me to join and bring RW and TEst with me to destory the hegemoney. I wasn't seeing any concrete plans or bright ideas so I decioded to test the said sphere to see if they were worthy to be our allys. And raid, raid is always good reason. They crumbled on day 1, and I simple scratched the GOT sphere as having any potential in future. Mensa rolling SK was just final nail in coffin to taht idea in my mind.

 

1. Yeah thats quite possible, I don't doubt you guys knew everything that was going on. I know Kylo was leaking what was coming from our chan Though you could have got your intel elsewhere. I'm not claiming we would have definitely won the war had it played out, just that we were going to come in if it kept going.

 

2. I mean I don't blame him for wanting it back. But its not like we stole the money from TEst. It got looted off someone who wasn't on the AA at the time and who was raiding our members. Its fair play to do the mass raiding, looking at the loot stats it clearly worked out very well for them on the whole, but its also fair play for us to counter imo. To be honest I don't even blame them for trying to strong arm it out of us. Its a political play and this is a political game. In this case the play failed. As for Jawa, I think he set alarms for everytime he had enough MAPs for a naval strike and got online to launch them And you're absolutely right, I agree, that this wont defuse any animosity between us and them. But from our perspective, the point at which we are being threatened for the resources, combined with previous issues, marked the boiling point of those tensions as well as a direct call to action.

 

3. Its possible Valyria or NW may have been hinting at something (I obviously can't claim to know what they were up to) but I think this might be a misunderstanding (or misrepresentation on the part of whoever was going around saying this on our side). At least for SK we never had any plans to topple t$ or take them down. Maybe we'd fight them down the line if pragmatic concerns demanded it, but we were mostly concerned internally about reforming some of the departments, regrowing our top tier, and working on Valyria and NW and forming ourselves into a decent mini-sphere. Once all that was accomplished (probably at least 4 months) we would take a look at the state of the world and decide how we wanted to fit into it. Obviously our decision to largely eschew the rest of the world proved a mistake as politics will come to you even if you dont come to them, and well things fell apart much as everyone saw.

[Tywin Lannister]

2. I mean I don't blame him for wanting it back. But its not like we stole the money from TEst. It got looted off someone who wasn't on the AA at the time and who was raiding our members. Its fair play to do the mass raiding, looking at the loot stats it clearly worked out very well for them on the whole, but its also fair play for us to counter imo. 

 

That's really nice from a FA point and all, but Jawa hit everyone who was out of TEst in a single alliance hoping for what eventually he did land. I hadn't hit anyone in SK when he hit me so don't lead with the claim it was a counter alone. I reversed the war on him but he did get to defeat everyone else. Only Reaver was the profitable one. 

[Sargun]

I blame Jawa for this too. Kudos to him tough, he proved to be better raider than me (well, more dedicated to game than I could in this period of my life).

 

Why did you quote the entire post?  What was the point of that?

[Ogaden]

 

 

 

 

The Seven Kingdoms is an old alliance. Over the years we have seen many leaders, and we have been many things to many people; allies and enemies, friends and villains, leaders and isolationists. One thing we have never been are push overs. We do not take kindly to being threatened, and we do not give in to threats of arms. Something Terminus Est is about to find out the hard way.

 

As some may have seen, roughly two weeks ago one of our members raided a 1 man micro alliance and made off with over a billion in loot. As it turns out, this nation had been sent from TEst to hide and guard a share of their bank. A clever move, and aside from the one hiccup, one that worked quite well for them. Nevertheless they were understandably unenthused about losing the assets.

 

Enter Prefontaine, who approached us with a request to return the resources that were looted. We refused and were given the PW equivalent of the classic mob extortion scheme, wherein we were informed that soon enough TEst, lovers of battle that they are, will be looking for a new war. We will be very "popular" targets due to the raid and found ourselves at war. Unless of course we gave it back. Yes Pre this is a nice place we've got here. It would be a shame if something were to happen to it. But we don't plan on paying you to ensure that.

 

As far as we're concerned our member engaged in a perfectly valid raid and was entitled to the money. At the time the nation in question was not in TEst but was in a 1 man alliance flying the now defunct VoC affiliation with no visible ties to TEst. Moreover he had previously raided us, so we fail to see why any counter raid on our part and its resulting winnings should be illegitimate. Even if he had been in TEst at the time, the fact that we were being raided alone is enough for us to consider Jawas strike legitimate. It's a risk that comes with guarding your money that way, and amplified by your raids on us. As for Jawas post on the OWF which was mentioned....some may consider the gloating in poor taste. But if you are triggered by banter on the forums, you may be playing the wrong game.

 

The timing of this war is not good for TEst. It is true they are recently coming out of another conflict. But we aren't the ones who issued the ultimatum. We are the ones responding to it.

 

TL:DR: We could give back the resources looted or face war when they got over the rebuild. We chose war, and we decided to have it now instead. The Seven Kingdoms officially declares war on Terminus Est.

 

I blame Jawa for this too. Kudos to him tough, he proved to be better raider than me (well, more dedicated to game than I could in this period of my life).

 

Why did you quote the entire post?  What was the point of that?

 

Quotes are fun

[Charles Bolivar]

TEst itself operated on an opportunistic basis, SK is now attacking TEst using the same basis of opportunism.

 

Live by it, die by it.

[Kastor]

1. Yeah thats quite possible, I don't doubt you guys knew everything that was going on. I know Kylo was leaking what was coming from our chan Though you could have got your intel elsewhere. I'm not claiming we would have definitely won the war had it played out, just that we were going to come in if it kept going.

 

2. I mean I don't blame him for wanting it back. But its not like we stole the money from TEst. It got looted off someone who wasn't on the AA at the time and who was raiding our members. Its fair play to do the mass raiding, looking at the loot stats it clearly worked out very well for them on the whole, but its also fair play for us to counter imo. To be honest I don't even blame them for trying to strong arm it out of us. Its a political play and this is a political game. In this case the play failed. As for Jawa, I think he set alarms for everytime he had enough MAPs for a naval strike and got online to launch them And you're absolutely right, I agree, that this wont defuse any animosity between us and them. But from our perspective, the point at which we are being threatened for the resources, combined with previous issues, marked the boiling point of those tensions as well as a direct call to action.

 

3. Its possible Valyria or NW may have been hinting at something (I obviously can't claim to know what they were up to) but I think this might be a misunderstanding (or misrepresentation on the part of whoever was going around saying this on our side). At least for SK we never had any plans to topple t$ or take them down. Maybe we'd fight them down the line if pragmatic concerns demanded it, but we were mostly concerned internally about reforming some of the departments, regrowing our top tier, and working on Valyria and NW and forming ourselves into a decent mini-sphere. Once all that was accomplished (probably at least 4 months) we would take a look at the state of the world and decide how we wanted to fit into it. Obviously our decision to largely eschew the rest of the world proved a mistake as politics will come to you even if you dont come to them, and well things fell apart much as everyone saw.

No, Kylo wasn't leaking anything from that chatroom. I'm not Gandalf, do not call me a leaker. The person leaking from that chatroom was Eddard trying to calm Paperless down. Don't throw things out that's utter bullshit, I'm getting quite tired of hearing negative propaganda from SK.

[Eld Fen]

 I'm getting quite tired of hearing negative propaganda from SK.

 

[Kastor]

The amount you try to blame your shortcomings on me is hilarious. You guys got attacked, asked for help, we said we'd help, then when half your sphere didn't militerize and we backed out(mind you, we had 30k score, you decide to just dump everything on me/Lordaeron.

 

*Multiple Leaks from our chatrooms* "Kylo Leaked!

*Failure to protect our allies that we had MD level treaties with* "Lordaeron has an ODP, but we'll say Lordaeron backing out is the reason we couldn't defend our MD level allies"

*Yeah, accepting that peace made us look weak* "Kylo urged us to do it, even though we're our own sovereign alliance, let's just tell people Kylo urging us to accept peace is the reason we accepted it"

 

Stop trying to put your shortcomings on us, it's your alliance and it was your sphere. You guys decided to accept peace. You guys had leakers from your channel that wasn't Lordaeron, and you guys were unable to defend your allies. The fact that you keep having excuses for literally everything shows everyone exactly how inept you guys really are. If you spent as much effort on FA as you did Bullshitting then GoT sphere would still be around.

[Mikey]

The amount you try to blame your shortcomings on me is hilarious. You guys got attacked, asked for help, we said we'd help, then when half your sphere didn't militerize and we backed out(mind you, we had 30k score, you decide to just dump everything on me/Lordaeron.

 

*Multiple Leaks from our chatrooms* "Kylo Leaked!

*Failure to protect our allies that we had MD level treaties with* "Lordaeron has an ODP, but we'll say Lordaeron backing out is the reason we couldn't defend our MD level allies"

*Yeah, accepting that peace made us look weak* "Kylo urged us to do it, even though we're our own sovereign alliance, let's just tell people Kylo urging us to accept peace is the reason we accepted it"

 

Stop trying to put your shortcomings on us, it's your alliance and it was your sphere. You guys decided to accept peace. You guys had leakers from your channel that wasn't Lordaeron, and you guys were unable to defend your allies. The fact that you keep having excuses for literally everything shows everyone exactly how inept you guys really are. If you spent as much effort on FA as you did Bullshitting then GoT sphere would still be around.

 

We haven't blamed anything on you, you barely effect us   I don't recall dumping anything on you either. We didn't even ask you to help though we certainly appreciated your offer when it came in. (it has come to my attention this is incorrect and Valyria reached out to Loarderon)

 

I don't even know what your asterisks are supposed to mean? I mean, you did leak. You admitted to that yourself so I'm not sure what the issue there is. I guess you're upset I mentioned it? Even that I wasn't using that as blame or justification or whatever you seem to think you're being targeted for lol, just mentioning it in our agreement with arrgh that we certainly did have opsec issues, perhaps more than one. Wouldn't  have changed anything about us entering the war though. Even after screenshots from the channel were showing up we were still sticking to the same schedule, Valyria just happened to get peace before that happened - peace you spearheaded. I don't have an issue with that decision and we've never raised that as a negative. If they felt the need to end the war and you were able to help them negotiate that on terms agreeable to them then so much the better. I was however pointing out the hypocrisy in saying Valyria were stupid and weak to go for peace when you were a big advocate of that peace and therefor must have agreed with the logic behind it.

Edited January 30, 2017 by Mikey

[Eld Fen]

The amount you try to blame your shortcomings on me is hilarious. 

 

Pretty sure we don't even think about you at all tbh, let alone cast you as the bane of our existance. I know I don't. 

[Ogaden]

TEst itself operated on an opportunistic basis, SK is now attacking TEst using the same basis of opportunism.

 

Live by it, die by it.

Yeah what could possibly go wrong

[Kastor]

We haven't blamed anything on you, you barely effect us   I don't recall dumping anything on you either. We didn't even ask you to help though we certainly appreciated your offer when it came in.

 

I don't even know what your asterisks are supposed to mean? I mean, you did leak. You admitted to that yourself so I'm not sure what the issue there is. The second point is just made up. As you literally already stated were were all working on a counter offensive and we never backed out of that until Valyria reached their peace agreement with TEst, which you admitted to spearheading. I don't have an issue with that and we've never raised that as a negative, if they felt the need to end the war and you were able to help them negotiate that on terms agreeable to them then so much the better. I was however pointing out the hypocrisy in saying Valyria were stupid and weak to go for peace when you were a big advocate of that peace and therefor must have agreed with the logic behind it.

"We didn't even ask you to help"

 

I never admitted to leaking because I don't leak, I don't know who you're thinking of but it wasn't me.

[Kastor]

Pretty sure we don't even think about you at all tbh, let alone cast you as the bane of our existance. I know I don't.

 

The proof is throughout this thread, anytime someone brings up something negative(okay, I guess you guys don't think anything is negative but it is negative). You immediately say "Kylo" or "Lordaeron".