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20% "tax" to pay for the wall


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lol, Trump has about as much understanding of the economy as Lightning. 

It's a useful mental exercise. Through the years, many thinkers have been fascinated by it. But I don't enjoy playing. It was a game that was born during a brutal age when life counted for little. Everyone believed that some people were worth more than others. Kings. Pawns. I don't think that anyone is worth more than anyone else. Chess is just a game. Real people are not pieces. You can't assign more value to some of them and not others. Not to me. Not to anyone. People are not a thing that you can sacrifice. The lesson is, if anyone who looks on to the world as if it was a game of chess, deserves to lose.

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You know, I'm surprised there isn't more threads on how smart Trump is (seeing that practically all of you are pepe trolls). 

It's a useful mental exercise. Through the years, many thinkers have been fascinated by it. But I don't enjoy playing. It was a game that was born during a brutal age when life counted for little. Everyone believed that some people were worth more than others. Kings. Pawns. I don't think that anyone is worth more than anyone else. Chess is just a game. Real people are not pieces. You can't assign more value to some of them and not others. Not to me. Not to anyone. People are not a thing that you can sacrifice. The lesson is, if anyone who looks on to the world as if it was a game of chess, deserves to lose.

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You know, I'm surprised there isn't more threads on how smart Trump is (seeing that practically all of you are pepe trolls). 

I was tempted to make some threads to kick some life into it, probably some point in February I'll get around to it. 

Leftists provided a lot of material to work with so I'll be looking into that. 

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They will pay, if not one way then it will be another. Those who doubt Trump on this better be mindful of how wrong they have been in the past on everything. Remember "He will never build the wall" when you cry "Mexico will never pay".

 

You know, I'm surprised there isn't more threads on how smart Trump is (seeing that practically all of you are pepe trolls). 

 

Hard to be a troll when you're so right all the time mate. The trolls are the ones who have said stuff like "The Wall will never be built", "Trump will never do as he has promised", and so forth. The Roz meanwhile has said only correct statements. When Hillary had a 99% chance to win I put it down that Trump would win at risk to myself here on this forum and look how that went. The Roz is a visionary, the only pollster that matters who can call all the big moments correctly.

 

So you want threads making fun of the people who are wrong all the time?

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The Roz meanwhile has said only correct statements. When Hillary had a 99% chance to win I put it down that Trump would win at risk to myself here on this forum and look how that went. The Roz is a visionary, the only pollster that matters who can call all the big moments correctly.

 

So you want threads making fun of the people who are wrong all the time?

Off topic but, why does The Roz speak of himself in the third person? Edited by Queen M
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Off topic but, why does The Roz speak of himself in the third person?

Roz only did in 66.67% of his sentences where he was referenced. I assume he does it in a similar manner to Brian Boz, whether he means to or not. 

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They will pay, if not one way then it will be another. Those who doubt Trump on this better be mindful of how wrong they have been in the past on everything. Remember "He will never build the wall" when you cry "Mexico will never pay".

 

 

Hard to be a troll when you're so right all the time mate. The trolls are the ones who have said stuff like "The Wall will never be built", "Trump will never do as he has promised", and so forth. The Roz meanwhile has said only correct statements. When Hillary had a 99% chance to win I put it down that Trump would win at risk to myself here on this forum and look how that went. The Roz is a visionary, the only pollster that matters who can call all the big moments correctly.

 

So you want threads making fun of the people who are wrong all the time?

 

Oh, no. I'm totally convinced that Trump is going to build the wall. I just don't think Mexico is going to pay for it. The "tax" is a sham, it's a thinly disguised way to make the American consumer pay for it. And if he wants to suicide the North American economy via twitter, he's going to have to scrape the bottom of the debt barrel to get the money to build the wall. 

 

I suppose he could enslave Mexican immigrants to do the job. Is that what he means that Mexico is going to pay for it despite everyone in Mexico saying no? 

It's a useful mental exercise. Through the years, many thinkers have been fascinated by it. But I don't enjoy playing. It was a game that was born during a brutal age when life counted for little. Everyone believed that some people were worth more than others. Kings. Pawns. I don't think that anyone is worth more than anyone else. Chess is just a game. Real people are not pieces. You can't assign more value to some of them and not others. Not to me. Not to anyone. People are not a thing that you can sacrifice. The lesson is, if anyone who looks on to the world as if it was a game of chess, deserves to lose.

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A way to pay for it would be to cut the funds that would be otherwise be going to Mexico or caused by the Mexican Illegals by removing them. Its easy for Mexico to indirectly pay for it, or rather the Mexican people. 

Well its not really, its just the US saving money that would otherwise be going to Mexican wasters, it doesn't really where it comes from as long as Mexico suffers in my book. 

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A way to pay for it would be to cut the funds that would be otherwise be going to Mexico or caused by the Mexican Illegals by removing them. Its easy for Mexico to indirectly pay for it, or rather the Mexican people. 

Well its not really, its just the US saving money that would otherwise be going to Mexican wasters, it doesn't really where it comes from as long as Mexico suffers in my book. 

 

As of 2017, the US intends to send $134M in financial assistance to Mexico, primarily to combat drug cartels and unlawful migration from Central America. Even if you thought taking away those funds was a good idea, you are still short of roughly (by Majority Leader McConnell's estimates) $14.8B. 

 

You could shake down all of the Mexican illegals when you remove them (i.e., confiscate all their assets). The estimate number (from Homeland) of illegal Mexican immigrants is 11.4M, including children under the age of 18. If you subtract children, you cut the 11.4M immigrants by 1.1M, giving you around 10M immigrants who you can confiscate all their money from. Under the generous assumption that these immigrants have the same amount of assets as your average American household (Net worth; including houses, cars, etc.), there is roughly $11B in assets that you can potentially seize. By McConnell's estimates (on top of the financial assistance from Mexico), you are still roughly $3B short. This is excluding the employment of a militarized police, infrastructure, bureaucracy, and banking system necessary to institute a mass deportation. McConnell's estimates (correct me if I'm wrong) also exclude labor and maintenance of the wall. 

 

You can take some lessons on history on how to remove unwanted populations in a rather efficient manner. In the mid-1930s, Europe had a Jewish population of some 9.5M. Germany's Third Reich attempted to deport as many Jews as possible while confiscating their assets. The issue for the Reich was deporting Jews while confiscating their assets still netted a loss. Their policy continued for almost 9 years (between 1933 and 1942) before they realized they could just forcibly relocate them to a camp and use them as labor. 

 

That being said, for your numbers to add up and ensure Mexico/Mexicans will pay for the wall, you can confiscate their assets, relocate them to the border, put them into labor camps to build the wall and make sure they are on the other side of it when it finishes. Even then, the cost of labor is estimated at $3B. Thus, you should keep the Mexicans (not on the American side of the wall) in the labor camp so they can work on the maintenance of it. 

 

 

 

 

Oh, and then systemically gas them. Mexico suffers and we are all happy. 

It's a useful mental exercise. Through the years, many thinkers have been fascinated by it. But I don't enjoy playing. It was a game that was born during a brutal age when life counted for little. Everyone believed that some people were worth more than others. Kings. Pawns. I don't think that anyone is worth more than anyone else. Chess is just a game. Real people are not pieces. You can't assign more value to some of them and not others. Not to me. Not to anyone. People are not a thing that you can sacrifice. The lesson is, if anyone who looks on to the world as if it was a game of chess, deserves to lose.

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A way to pay for it would be to cut the funds that would be otherwise be going to Mexico or caused by the Mexican Illegals by removing them. Its easy for Mexico to indirectly pay for it, or rather the Mexican people. 

Well its not really, its just the US saving money that would otherwise be going to Mexican wasters, it doesn't really where it comes from as long as Mexico suffers in my book. 

Between you and Trump you need better advisers. Mexico just cancelled Trump's planned state dinner and visit. Mexico is under no obligation to accept any of our illegal immigrants since most of them aren't actually from Mexico. Fencing the areas that are so remote that they're not used by human traffickers isn't going to do much--it's why we didn't bother with a wall in that area. He's also prohibited from sending refugees anywhere if there's even a threat of danger to them and with that and ex post facto no refugee already here is going anywhere.  Why are you basically taxing the extraordinarily poor who come to work instead of a handful of tycoons who won't even notice an amount like that missing?

 

So, uh, aside from all your sentences, good and accurate post, new friend.

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Oh, no. I'm totally convinced that Trump is going to build the wall. I just don't think Mexico is going to pay for it. The "tax" is a sham, it's a thinly disguised way to make the American consumer pay for it. And if he wants to suicide the North American economy via twitter, he's going to have to scrape the bottom of the debt barrel to get the money to build the wall. 

 

I suppose he could enslave Mexican immigrants to do the job. Is that what he means that Mexico is going to pay for it despite everyone in Mexico saying no?

 

Well at least you've accepted the Wall will be built, that is a step forward for many people. 

 

Considering his US steel for the pipeline decree (not popular to the corporate folk as that will increase the price, oh and is something a dictator would do apparently) it would be odd to me for him to use Mexicans to build it as "Wall Deniers" have moved to as an attack. 

 

As of 2017, the US intends to send $134M in financial assistance to Mexico, primarily to combat drug cartels and unlawful migration from Central America. Even if you thought taking away those funds was a good idea, you are still short of roughly (by Majority Leader McConnell's estimates) $14.8B. 

 

You could shake down all of the Mexican illegals when you remove them (i.e., confiscate all their assets). The estimate number (from Homeland) of illegal Mexican immigrants is 11.4M, including children under the age of 18. If you subtract children, you cut the 11.4M immigrants by 1.1M, giving you around 10M immigrants who you can confiscate all their money from. Under the generous assumption that these immigrants have the same amount of assets as your average American household (Net worth; including houses, cars, etc.), there is roughly $11B in assets that you can potentially seize. By McConnell's estimates (on top of the financial assistance from Mexico), you are still roughly $3B short. This is excluding the employment of a militarized police, infrastructure, bureaucracy, and banking system necessary to institute a mass deportation. McConnell's estimates (correct me if I'm wrong) also exclude labor and maintenance of the wall. 

 

You can take some lessons on history on how to remove unwanted populations in a rather efficient manner. In the mid-1930s, Europe had a Jewish population of some 9.5M. Germany's Third Reich attempted to deport as many Jews as possible while confiscating their assets. The issue for the Reich was deporting Jews while confiscating their assets still netted a loss. Their policy continued for almost 9 years (between 1933 and 1942) before they realized they could just forcibly relocate them to a camp and use them as labor. 

 

That being said, for your numbers to add up and ensure Mexico/Mexicans will pay for the wall, you can confiscate their assets, relocate them to the border, put them into labor camps to build the wall and make sure they are on the other side of it when it finishes. Even then, the cost of labor is estimated at $3B. Thus, you should keep the Mexicans (not on the American side of the wall) in the labor camp so they can work on the maintenance of it. 

 

Oh, and then systemically gas them. Mexico suffers and we are all happy.

 

Your post is utterly irrelevant as its based off a faulty assumption so I'll not bother with it.

 

I'm pretty sure I know what Lightning is speaking of as this matter has come up many timers as anti-Trump people ask with amusement how Mexico will pay for the wall. What he is referring to is not the aid sent to Mexico which is a drop in the ocean yes (though nevertheless something that will likely get cut), but remittance coming from the US and into Mexico which in 2016 was 24.6 billion. If the rate is say 20% then the wall will be payed off in a couple of years if the numbers stay steady though they will likely fall as November saw a spike and people will be getting deported. The thing there is if they don't sent money back to Mexico then... Mexico is in very bad trouble so I expect money will keep flowing (which will get taxed to pay for the wall).

 

Between you and Trump you need better advisers. Mexico just cancelled Trump's planned state dinner and visit. Mexico is under no obligation to accept any of our illegal immigrants since most of them aren't actually from Mexico. Fencing the areas that are so remote that they're not used by human traffickers isn't going to do much--it's why we didn't bother with a wall in that area. He's also prohibited from sending refugees anywhere if there's even a threat of danger to them and with that and ex post facto no refugee already here is going anywhere.  Why are you basically taxing the extraordinarily poor who come to work instead of a handful of tycoons who won't even notice an amount like that missing?

 

So, uh, aside from all your sentences, good and accurate post, new friend.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/824616644370714627?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

 

Trump got Mexico to cancel it for him.

 

Pretty sure Trump wants to send them back to where they are from be it Mexico or some other state to the south.

 

You doubt Strongman Trump? The man who is doing numerous "illegal acts" with the latest being his decree to build pipelines with just US steel. Who is going to stop him? The UN? Did they stop the illegal torture? No. Are they this time going to do something and get sanctions put on America or whatever? Lol even thinking of such a thing. Trump knows he isn't bound by the laws and regulations of weaklings who can't enforce them. Only the Republican party can slow him down and Trump's guys have already been making it clear to the establishment Republicans that going to war with Trump will end badly for them.

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Your post is utterly irrelevant as its based off a faulty assumption so I'll not bother with it.

 

I'm pretty sure I know what Lightning is speaking of as this matter has come up many timers as anti-Trump people ask with amusement how Mexico will pay for the wall. What he is referring to is not the aid sent to Mexico which is a drop in the ocean yes (though nevertheless something that will likely get cut), but remittance coming from the US and into Mexico which in 2016 was 24.6 billion. If the rate is say 20% then the wall will be payed off in a couple of years if the numbers stay steady though they will likely fall as November saw a spike and people will be getting deported. The thing there is if they don't sent money back to Mexico then... Mexico is in very bad trouble so I expect money will keep flowing (which will get taxed to pay for the wall).

 

Ah, I've missed you, Roz. My eternal Trump troll rival to dump my time and effort into on the social discussion forums of a nation-sim game. Time well spent.

 

It could work, but it would be tricky. The most common way to transfer money today is via electronic transactions or physically through the mail. In order to tax remittances, you would need to (illegally) open private letters/monitor international bank transactions and take 20% out. Sure, there is precedent in having a court open up transaction data, but that was for counter-terror/counter-trafficking cases, Trump would need to have a new legal infrastructure in place to do it.

 

If you intend to just "tax" wire transfers to Mexico, you screw up relations even further (though at this point, nothing short of invasion could possibly make Mexico more pissed than she already is). You would also need to find a nice rate: too high, and citizens will start using other means (bitcoin, traceless wired transfers through cellphone apps, etc.). Too low, and you will never find enough money to build the wall. However, by a simple 1% (which is what most states do for any wire transfers out of state) "tax," it would take the US literally half a century to get enough money to build the wall (excluding labor/maintaince), under the assumption that the $23B figure stays constant and is all wired transfers.  

 

Plus, you are being counterproductive. How are you going to maintain the remittance tax while mass deporting illegals (who I imagine contribute the most in remittances)?

 

Also, you are exaggerating a bit there at the end. The remittances are only like 2% of Mexico's GDP. Sure, it affects more local economies in Mexico, but a 1% drop of their 2% GDP is not going to be a huge deal. Plus, the president of Mexico (who was previously very unpopular) is now riding a new popular wave by giving the middle finger to Trump. If I had to predict, I would say that any illegal immigrant (or, for that matter, anyone who is sending money to Mexico) would actively try to do the same and seek loopholes.

It's a useful mental exercise. Through the years, many thinkers have been fascinated by it. But I don't enjoy playing. It was a game that was born during a brutal age when life counted for little. Everyone believed that some people were worth more than others. Kings. Pawns. I don't think that anyone is worth more than anyone else. Chess is just a game. Real people are not pieces. You can't assign more value to some of them and not others. Not to me. Not to anyone. People are not a thing that you can sacrifice. The lesson is, if anyone who looks on to the world as if it was a game of chess, deserves to lose.

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Ah, I've missed you, Roz. My eternal Trump troll rival to dump my time and effort into on the social discussion forums of a nation-sim game. Time well spent.

 

It could work, but it would be tricky. The most common way to transfer money today is via electronic transactions or physically through the mail. In order to tax remittances, you would need to (illegally) open private letters/monitor international bank transactions and take 20% out. Sure, there is precedent in having a court open up transaction data, but that was for counter-terror/counter-trafficking cases, Trump would need to have a new legal infrastructure in place to do it.

 

If you intend to just "tax" wire transfers to Mexico, you screw up relations even further (though at this point, nothing short of invasion could possibly make Mexico more pissed than she already is). You would also need to find a nice rate: too high, and citizens will start using other means (bitcoin, traceless wired transfers through cellphone apps, etc.). Too low, and you will never find enough money to build the wall. However, by a simple 1% (which is what most states do for any wire transfers out of state) "tax," it would take the US literally half a century to get enough money to build the wall (excluding labor/maintaince), under the assumption that the $23B figure stays constant and is all wired transfers.  

 

Plus, you are being counterproductive. How are you going to maintain the remittance tax while mass deporting illegals (who I imagine contribute the most in remittances)?

 

Also, you are exaggerating a bit there at the end. The remittances are only like 2% of Mexico's GDP. Sure, it affects more local economies in Mexico, but a 1% drop of their 2% GDP is not going to be a huge deal. Plus, the president of Mexico (who was previously very unpopular) is now riding a new popular wave by giving the middle finger to Trump. If I had to predict, I would say that any illegal immigrant (or, for that matter, anyone who is sending money to Mexico) would actively try to do the same and seek loopholes.

 

No. In every instance of my so called "trolling" I have been correct and you and the rest have been wrong. So you guys are the trolls, the ones misinformed, and all the rest. I am simply a wise man trying to impart knowledge.

 

Your point is? You talk as if he is weak Obama.

 

So you put it at 1% and then put it forward as an attack on it? Get out of here with that. Trump will find the right balance I'm sure and if it doesn't pay itself within the 4 years then it will within the 8.

 

??? Again you're not presenting much in the way of any sort of argument. In what way will that matter to Trump? With the tariff he can say got every cent whatever the remittance collected ends up being, so him deporting means he can win on both fronts without issue. Some Liberals/Progressives and the media will call him out and say he is lying but they are of course irrelevant. 

 

It effects the poorest the hardest so you can talk as if its nothing but its actually very significant. As for Mr Nieto who is so unpopular his numbers basically can only go up right now... he is in a lose lose situation and has merely chosen what he thinks is best out of a bad bunch. When Mexico starts flatlining his numbers if they ever do recover will be obliterated quick enough. Trump holds all the cards over Mexico. I know it, you know it, everybody knows it.

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No. In every instance of my so called "trolling" I have been correct and you and the rest have been wrong. So you guys are the trolls, the ones misinformed, and all the rest. I am simply a wise man trying to impart knowledge.

 

Your point is? You talk as if he is weak Obama.

 

So you put it at 1% and then put it forward as an attack on it? Get out of here with that. Trump will find the right balance I'm sure and if it doesn't pay itself within the 4 years then it will within the 8.

 

??? Again you're not presenting much in the way of any sort of argument. In what way will that matter to Trump? With the tariff he can say got every cent whatever the remittance collected ends up being, so him deporting means he can win on both fronts without issue. Some Liberals/Progressives and the media will call him out and say he is lying but they are of course irrelevant. 

 

It effects the poorest the hardest so you can talk as if its nothing but its actually very significant. As for Mr Nieto who is so unpopular his numbers basically can only go up right now... he is in a lose lose situation and has merely chosen what he thinks is best out of a bad bunch. When Mexico starts flatlining his numbers if they ever do recover will be obliterated quick enough. Trump holds all the cards over Mexico. I know it, you know it, everybody knows it.

 

Not saying he couldn't do it, I'm just saying he needs stuff there, and I don't have a head count of the Republicans who would back that kind of legislation. Though, with the jellyfish Paul Ryan, I'm sure Trump won't have trouble strongarming his spineless medulla in the house. 

 

Nobody is going to go through more standard means of remittance if the "tax" is too high (ie 20%). Unless you close loopholes by corporate intervention which, even by the standards of Paul Ryan, no Republican (or Democrat) would ever support. I don't doubt Trump will find means to pay for the wall, I'm just saying it's not Mexico or Mexicans who are paying for it. 

 

Tariff isn't Mexico paying for the wall, it's the American consumer who buys inflated Mexican goods. 

 

I honestly don't think Nieto (from the way he responded to Trump this week - and for that matter, since he got the nomination) is going to cooperate with Trump. His popularity and approval ratings is almost entirely dependent on stonewalling Trump (since the rest of his administration has gone to shit). It's the reason why he wrote his tweets this week rejecting Trump's visit to Mexico in Spanish and not English, despite replying with the @realdonaldtrump. He's not going to buckle, especially since he learned his mistake of inviting Trump over to Mexico before the 3rd debate (when, at that point, he thought his approval ratings couldn't go lower). Time will tell, but if I was a betting man, I would make the safe bet that Trump and Nieto are never going to "negotiate."

It's a useful mental exercise. Through the years, many thinkers have been fascinated by it. But I don't enjoy playing. It was a game that was born during a brutal age when life counted for little. Everyone believed that some people were worth more than others. Kings. Pawns. I don't think that anyone is worth more than anyone else. Chess is just a game. Real people are not pieces. You can't assign more value to some of them and not others. Not to me. Not to anyone. People are not a thing that you can sacrifice. The lesson is, if anyone who looks on to the world as if it was a game of chess, deserves to lose.

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Leftists are getting crazier by the day finding new ways to attack Trump, Trump keeps winning though. 

It doesn't matter what you say, he is going to make America great with or without your approval. 

 

It is destiny that Trump saves the west. 

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Not saying he couldn't do it, I'm just saying he needs stuff there, and I don't have a head count of the Republicans who would back that kind of legislation. Though, with the jellyfish Paul Ryan, I'm sure Trump won't have trouble strongarming his spineless medulla in the house. 

 

Nobody is going to go through more standard means of remittance if the "tax" is too high (ie 20%). Unless you close loopholes by corporate intervention which, even by the standards of Paul Ryan, no Republican (or Democrat) would ever support. I don't doubt Trump will find means to pay for the wall, I'm just saying it's not Mexico or Mexicans who are paying for it. 

 

Tariff isn't Mexico paying for the wall, it's the American consumer who buys inflated Mexican goods. 

 

I honestly don't think Nieto (from the way he responded to Trump this week - and for that matter, since he got the nomination) is going to cooperate with Trump. His popularity and approval ratings is almost entirely dependent on stonewalling Trump (since the rest of his administration has gone to shit). It's the reason why he wrote his tweets this week rejecting Trump's visit to Mexico in Spanish and not English, despite replying with the @realdonaldtrump. He's not going to buckle, especially since he learned his mistake of inviting Trump over to Mexico before the 3rd debate (when, at that point, he thought his approval ratings couldn't go lower). Time will tell, but if I was a betting man, I would make the safe bet that Trump and Nieto are never going to "negotiate."

 

They will obey. Trump has given them some bones to be happy with and if they still then don't put up their end of the bargain then they can find out what happens when Trump tweets at you and then gets in front of cameras and talks about how much of a traitor and coward you are.

 

Do remember there were many things the Republicans would never allow and its going on ahead no issue (TPP destruction, Wall building, Muslim ban). They talk and talk as Trump says but they are men of no action. As for the amount the remittance will be I couldn't tell you as I don't recall Trump ever giving an exact amount. Even a humble 10% would pay the wall off (at current given price and remittance amounts) within his two terms.

 

And that is utterly irrelevant because that ain't how all this works. People need to understand how the people's minds work. Its not the full truth you say but so what when it will register in the majority's minds as true?

 

Nieto is weak and corrupt so I'd not overrate him. It sounds a good tactic for now but what happens when the poor get hit hardest with the job losses, less remittance, and all the other effects? What happens when large amounts of people are deported/flee into Mexico? What happens when the cartels get literally walled and thus begin doing even worse stuff in Mexico (and America may well not help in combating that in Mexico also)? Mexico will be even poorer and criminal, a mess as Trump would say.

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Leftists are getting crazier by the day finding new ways to attack Trump, Trump keeps winning though. 

It doesn't matter what you say, he is going to make America great with or without your approval. 

 

It is destiny that Trump saves the west. 

 

You are so far right, you don't even have a conceptual understanding of what is a centrist. 

 

 

And that is utterly irrelevant because that ain't how all this works. People need to understand how the people's minds work. Its not the full truth you say but so what when it will register in the majority's minds as true?

 

A tariff works by adding an import fee on the companies who are shipping into the US. That in turn results in the company hiking up the prices in order to account for the import fee. Which in turn then gets paid by the consumer. So the consumer is paying for the wall, not Mexico or companies based in Mexico. That is a fact. 

 

An opinion would be that a 10% wire-transfer fee for any bank transfers between the US and Mexico would result in people willingly pay the fee and not seek alternative means to transfer the remittances. An opinion that I would say is wrong, but only way for us to know is to find out. 

 

Regardless, Mexico isn't going to be paying for the wall. Destroying their economy (since you think that's a good idea) is also counter productive since it encourages more immigrants to flee the country. By that point, you would need to militarize the border if you want to keep illegal immigrants out, thus increasing the maintenance of the wall and making it more expensive for the tax payer. 

It's a useful mental exercise. Through the years, many thinkers have been fascinated by it. But I don't enjoy playing. It was a game that was born during a brutal age when life counted for little. Everyone believed that some people were worth more than others. Kings. Pawns. I don't think that anyone is worth more than anyone else. Chess is just a game. Real people are not pieces. You can't assign more value to some of them and not others. Not to me. Not to anyone. People are not a thing that you can sacrifice. The lesson is, if anyone who looks on to the world as if it was a game of chess, deserves to lose.

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A tariff works by adding an import fee on the companies who are shipping into the US. That in turn results in the company hiking up the prices in order to account for the import fee. Which in turn then gets paid by the consumer. So the consumer is paying for the wall, not Mexico or companies based in Mexico. That is a fact. 

 

An opinion would be that a 10% wire-transfer fee for any bank transfers between the US and Mexico would result in people willingly pay the fee and not seek alternative means to transfer the remittances. An opinion that I would say is wrong, but only way for us to know is to find out. 

 

Regardless, Mexico isn't going to be paying for the wall. Destroying their economy (since you think that's a good idea) is also counter productive since it encourages more immigrants to flee the country. By that point, you would need to militarize the border if you want to keep illegal immigrants out, thus increasing the maintenance of the wall and making it more expensive for the tax payer. 

 

Why are you even saying this to me? As I've told you its all marketing which Trump is a master of. What you say is irrelevant when he can sell it as Mexico having paid for it (though if remittance is enough then it'll just be the cherry on top). You can state such things if you wish, the whole media can state such things if it likes and as I said, irrelevant. 

 

We'll see. People aren't going to let their families suffer because they have to pay 10% more I can tell you that much. A reduction is likely yes as November saw a spike plus people getting deported, but I don't believe it'll be significant enough to not be enough to pay for the wall in the 8 year timespan (if the Wall price stays the same).

 

You forget Trump is already tripling the border guard and if further amounts are needed as Mexico collapses then oh well, he'll sell it for himself positively.

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You are so far right, you don't even have a conceptual understanding of what is a centrist. 

 

Not sure what logic you're using to come up with this conclusion, explain further. All the facts disagree with you but please give your expert opinion on how the facts are wrong.

I guess that's how we know you're a leftist lunatic, going against the facts.

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Why are you even saying this to me? As I've told you its all marketing which Trump is a master of. What you say is irrelevant when he can sell it as Mexico having paid for it (though if remittance is enough then it'll just be the cherry on top). You can state such things if you wish, the whole media can state such things if it likes and as I said, irrelevant. 

 

We'll see. People aren't going to let their families suffer because they have to pay 10% more I can tell you that much. A reduction is likely yes as November saw a spike plus people getting deported, but I don't believe it'll be significant enough to not be enough to pay for the wall in the 8 year timespan (if the Wall price stays the same).

 

You forget Trump is already tripling the border guard and if further amounts are needed as Mexico collapses then oh well, he'll sell it for himself positively.

 

Okay, so you just admitted that Trump lies, and as long as everyone believes that the tariff is "Mexico paying for the wall" and not consumers, the hardcore facts don't matter. In that, we are in agreement. Trump seems to fabricate his own reality, but only like 15% of this country actually believes in it. Kinda like bragging about how his inauguration attendance was the largest in history or that millions of illegal votes were cast to make him lose the popular vote. 

 

You are assuming that people don't have alternative traceless means of wiring remittances that can't be taxed. I can tell you of at least 5 phone apps or social media pages that allow you to wire money. I mean, for god's sake, I can think of ways around the remittance tax that would be near impossible to close. Take, for example, ebay. Somebody in Mexico puts up an item that's worthless. Person in US buys it with bitcoin or other alternative currency. Person just avoided using bank accounts to directly wire transfer money. Then you might say, ok, let's just tax any and all economic transactions across the border (which is inherently a self-destructive concept, but we don't care about that now). Then people can just wire to other countries and use them as relays. Or mail the money in an old fashion envelope. Your remittance tax doesn't work if the tax is too high, and in acceptable ranges, becomes too low to pay for the wall in a decent time frame. 

 

Not sure what logic you're using to come up with this conclusion, explain further. All the facts disagree with you but please give your expert opinion on how the facts are wrong.

I guess that's how we know you're a leftist lunatic, going against the facts.

 

Lol. That's rich coming from a person whose only defense is "ur wrong." At least the Roz engages. 

 

Here's my logic: It appears anyone who isn't chocking on the diminutive 70-year-old phallus of a narcissistic, lie-fabricating, impulsive, (objectively speaking) "nontraditional" irrumator is a leftist to you.

 

Centrists are the backbone of a democracy. They compromise, they discuss, they look at ideas other than their own to find common ground and engage in constructive conversation to solve problems. They actively try to seek new information to inform their policy decision-making. They place the nation above their ideology because they recognize that only within the safety of the state can their ideology even exist. 

 

Here is what a radical does: They don't compromise, they don't discuss, they don't look at ideas other than their own and they don't care about common ground or engaging in constructive conversation. They don't seek out new information to inform their policy decision-making. They place their destructive ideology above the nation because they have the foresight of a headless chicken. Fanatics are inherently self-destructive because in their mind, no price is too small to pay to achieve their goal (shout out to you Roz).  

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It's a useful mental exercise. Through the years, many thinkers have been fascinated by it. But I don't enjoy playing. It was a game that was born during a brutal age when life counted for little. Everyone believed that some people were worth more than others. Kings. Pawns. I don't think that anyone is worth more than anyone else. Chess is just a game. Real people are not pieces. You can't assign more value to some of them and not others. Not to me. Not to anyone. People are not a thing that you can sacrifice. The lesson is, if anyone who looks on to the world as if it was a game of chess, deserves to lose.

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Lol. That's rich coming from a person whose only defense is "ur wrong." At least the Roz engages. 

I only say people are wrong when they post stuff about me, when its not about me I only post facts. I don't engage as you're right, I just post facts. 

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I only say people are wrong when they post stuff about me, when its not about me I only post facts. I don't engage as you're right, I just post facts. 

 

Ah, that explains why you didn't post anything when I challenged your understanding of the economy. It's because you only post facts, and you don't know any of them. That's actually a pretty smart way to say you are uninformed. 

It's a useful mental exercise. Through the years, many thinkers have been fascinated by it. But I don't enjoy playing. It was a game that was born during a brutal age when life counted for little. Everyone believed that some people were worth more than others. Kings. Pawns. I don't think that anyone is worth more than anyone else. Chess is just a game. Real people are not pieces. You can't assign more value to some of them and not others. Not to me. Not to anyone. People are not a thing that you can sacrifice. The lesson is, if anyone who looks on to the world as if it was a game of chess, deserves to lose.

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