Dabawss Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Since Alex locked the tread in tech support "because it is not a bug" and instructed us to post elsewhere if we wish to discuss this, here I am presenting my case on why I think that the person who came up with this idea is so disconnected from reality that they shouldnt be allowed to walk around without having a straightjacket on "for their own safety" [1] - Fortifications are military constructions or buildings designed for the defense of territories in warfare, and also used to solidify rule in a region during peace time. Humans have constructed defensive works for many thousands of years, in a variety of increasingly complex designs. The term is derived from the Latin fortis ("strong") and facere ("to make"). If you have no military you have nothing to make strong, [2] Further, if you have no money you don't have the means to build fortifications, since "fortifications" are military constructions or buildings, if you have no money, you can't fortify. [3] Fortifications "beef up" a nation's defense... if you have no defenders, you have nothing to beef up, let alone make impregnable - which the current state of fortify does. Fortify implies strengthening, not a "shield" in a childlike sense where fortification, in its current state is like a little child saying "I have a shield you cant hurt me" [4] Fortification should not only require MAPs, but also a military force, since it requires 3 MILITARY ACTION POINTS to use. [5] Tieing it to "MILITARY ACTION points" implies it is a military action, which it clearly isnt since it has no check to see if the person using it has any military to use action points with... It isn't an economic action either since it neither checks nor requires an economy to "fortify". It isn't a political action since it does nothing "politically" to help or harm a nation. It is an easily exploitable mechanic that isn't tied to ANY aspect of the game. [6] a nation should NEVER be able to indefinitely hold off attackers no matter if you go at it with the philosophy of "if they are willing to take damage to not lose a war or raid" or not. [7] at NO cost to a nation, using fortifications allows a nation to remain unbeatable. a free permanent "get out of jail free" card that gives nations the ability to never again lose a conflict at no cost to them. you may say that there is the cost to infrastructure, but no, there isnt, really. nations exploiting the hell out of this VERY flawed mechanic are NEVER going to rebuild their infrastructure, ever. They have one purpose and one purpose only, to protect alliance bank or treasures at all cost, and, thanks to Alex letting users exploit the multiple accounts with a simple claim they are on a shared lan or a shared computer, this allows people to have a "bank nation" that is indestructible, and a nation that they can play as well 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward I Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Those are some strong opinions for someone who doesn't have a nation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dabawss Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 Says who? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WISD0MTREE Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 [2] Further, if you have no money you don't have the means to build fortifications, since "fortifications" are military constructions or buildings, if you have no money, you can't fortify. [4] Fortification should not only require MAPs, but also a military force, since it requires 3 MILITARY ACTION POINTS to use. [7] at NO cost to a nation, you may say that there is the cost to infrastructure, but no, there isnt, really. nations exploiting the hell out of this VERY flawed mechanic are NEVER going to rebuild their infrastructure, ever. You can't fortify if you were out of money and had negative income. How many points do you need to make this point? 1, 3, 4, AND 5? Infrastructure. Infrastructure isn't free. You can't rebuild power plants if you don't have enough infra. You have to eventually rebuild, or you won't be able to have a military. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dabawss Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 You can't fortify if you were out of money and had negative income. How many points do you need to make this point? 1, 3, 4, AND 5? Infrastructure. Infrastructure isn't free. You can't rebuild power plants if you don't have enough infra. You have to eventually rebuild, or you won't be able to have a military. Apparently not enough times as YOU didnt get the idea. People exploiting this dont WANT to rebuild Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Them Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 IDK. I think the correct response here is something along the lines of "everyone knows that there is a problem with fortify and the admin's mental state already. Nobody wants more complaints, everyone wants solutions" So, what do you propose as a solution to the problem? Quote [insert quote here] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Them Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Also, Those are some strong opinions for someone who doesn't have a nation. Those are some strong opinions for someone who doesn't have a nation. (your link's broken) 1 Quote [insert quote here] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryleh Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 (edited) You can't fortify if you were out of money and had negative income. How many points do you need to make this point? 1, 3, 4, AND 5? Infrastructure. Infrastructure isn't free. You can't rebuild power plants if you don't have enough infra. You have to eventually rebuild, or you won't be able to have a military. Apparently not enough times as YOU didnt get the idea. People exploiting this dont WANT to rebuild Maybe they prefer to not get beiged and get their nation or alliance looted? I'm down for losing more infra from 700 down so that i don't get beiged and lose my WC. Edited January 9, 2017 by Ryleh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dabawss Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 (edited) IDK. I think the correct response here is something along the lines of "everyone knows that there is a problem with fortify and the admin's mental state already. Nobody wants more complaints, everyone wants solutions" So, what do you propose as a solution to the problem? Other than returning things to the way they used to be befoire this whole messed up new war system in general? Well several things COULD be done to "plug the holes" (exploits) any one or combination thereof of the solutions below could easily remedy the situation (though there are probably many more ways I had not yet considered): [1] limit fortifications to once per day [2] require a military force to fortify (there are some who are 0 across the board) [3] Tie "fortify" to a specific military type (soldiers, tanks, planes or ships - not missiles or nukes) OR to a specific target type (infra, cash, military) [4] have "fortify degrade (and the increased resistances as well at 2-4 ticks per turn making it hard to beige a nation but NOT impossible or raise the values of military attacks to ONLY fortified nations by 1.5 times (15 for ground, 19.5 for air, 21 for naval attack etc) [5] *ducks* get rid of resistance AND fortify altogether **edit** [6] (this just came to me an hour after posting this)... make "fortify" a cross defense thing... a shared single fortify where each nation attacking them reduces the same single fortify, so Nation K is losing 1 of his 3 defensive wars, they choose "fortify" as their strategy for that 1 nation, and all nations attacking them have to deal with that fortification. Edited January 9, 2017 by Dabawss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dabawss Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 Maybe they prefer to not get beiged and get their nation or alliance looted? I'm down for losing more infra from 700 down so that i don't get beiged and lose my WC. I am quite sure you are down to losing 1.5k or more per city just to protect your pittance of a wc, since it will cost you at least that much if nort more to return your nation to where it was before the attack.... being unbeatable rocks, who cares what it cost you so long as you can go to bed at night with the satisfaction that never again will your nation color change to beige. Also, Those are some strong opinions for someone who doesn't have a nation. (your link's broken) ummm no, it isnt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WISD0MTREE Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 I hate the quote system on this. No, you said that someone should have a military to fortify multiple times. You only said that people don't want to rebuild the infra one time. Even on that note, repeating something doesn't mean people will believe it. How many times did Trump say building a wall would be great terrific? How many people still don't believe that? And yes, we will have to rebuild infra sooner or later. I am currently at -$70,000/turn, so I can't fortify or build a military. Plus, I am down one or two power plants, so I can't build military for those cities. Unless you are saying you know more about using fortify than someone who has actually done it in 7 wars. In which case, I know that everyone in the ER should just take 600 mg of Ibuprofen 4 times a day. This post is for educational purposes only. Do not substitute this for medical advice from a trained professional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatnate Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 I am quite sure you are down to losing 1.5k or more per city just to protect your pittance of a wc, since it will cost you at least that much if nort more to return your nation to where it was before the attack.... being unbeatable rocks, who cares what it cost you so long as you can go to bed at night with the satisfaction that never again will your nation color change to beige. Yeah, I mean once you loose nearly all your infra in the first round of war, why should you protect the WC that has nearly identical value? Clearly you should lose twice as much just because. Looting was doubled in the last patch and a 10% infra hit was added to each biege. There's no one to blame for mass-fortifying but Sheepy. If biege is this painful, we should be able to dodge it perpetually. You can still get ZI'd, but you won't lose your WC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dabawss Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share Posted January 10, 2017 I hate the quote system on this. No, you said that someone should have a military to fortify multiple times. You only said that people don't want to rebuild the infra one time. Even on that note, repeating something doesn't mean people will believe it. How many times did Trump say building a wall would be great terrific? How many people still don't believe that? And yes, we will have to rebuild infra sooner or later. I am currently at -$70,000/turn, so I can't fortify or build a military. Plus, I am down one or two power plants, so I can't build military for those cities. Unless you are saying you know more about using fortify than someone who has actually done it in 7 wars. In which case, I know that everyone in the ER should just take 600 mg of Ibuprofen 4 times a day. This post is for educational purposes only. Do not substitute this for medical advice from a trained professional. You SERIOUSLY think this guy https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=21389jhas ANY intention of spending 300 million + to rebuild his infra? no. he is what I call a "dummy alliance" member... his sole purpose is to sacrifice his nation to protect the assets of another alliance who's holdings are in his alliance bank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WISD0MTREE Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 You SERIOUSLY think this guy https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=21389jhas ANY intention of spending 300 million + to rebuild his infra? no. he is what I call a "dummy alliance" member... his sole purpose is to sacrifice his nation to protect the assets of another alliance who's holdings are in his alliance bank. May I suggest you buy this? It'll really complement your post. http://www.aaesports.com/rollaway-h-goal-post-hs-ncaa-p/rhg.htm thanks to Alex letting users exploit the multiple accounts with a simple claim they are on a shared lan or a shared computer, this allows people to have a "bank nation" that is indestructible, and a nation that they can play as well Missed this in my original read-through. That would be considered multi-ing. If you have any evidence of this, please report it in Game Reports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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