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Feminista's Vs Feminists.


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56 replies to this topic

#1
Geth

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So lemme ask you, do you think Feminism has turned an ugly course in terms of what it was meant for?

 

Cuase I've noticed that the "Feministas" are more-so about screaming and calling men pigs more than actually being for womens equal treatment. All the while, feminists have been kinda quite as of late...

 

Whaddya think?

 

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#2
Talerong

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Internet called them feminazis, which certainly speaks volume of their reputation worldwide and how far they've stray from actual feminism



#3
Sketchy

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Idk wtf a Feminista is, but Feminism is cancer.


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#4
Lilac Veritas

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I think one of the problems is that feminism is very broad these days. As such its almost hard to define it as any one thing anymore cause you've got a diverse range, including some quite radical groups. Like I'd call myself a feminist cause I believe in the simple definition that genders should be equal. 

Copying and pasting wikipedia's list of variants we have:

Amazon, Analytical, Anarchist, Anti-pornography, Anti-prostitution feminism, Atheist, Conservative, Cultural, Cyber, Democratic Confederalism, Difference, Eco, Eco Vegetarian, Equality, Fat, French, French post-structuralist, Gender, Global, Hip-hop/Hip hop, Individualist, Labor, Lesbian, Liberal, Equity, Lipstick, Marxist, Material, Maternal, Neo, New, Post, Postcolonial, Postmodern, Pro-life, Pro-sex worker, Post-structural, Racial [Black, Chicana, Indigenous, Native American],  Radical, Radical lesbians, Religious [Buddhist, Christian, Neopagan (Dianic Wicca, Reclaiming), Hindu, Islamic, Jewish, Jewish Orthodox, Mormon, Sikh], Separatist, Sex-positive, Social, Socialist, Standpoint, Third world, Trans, Transnational, Womanism, Africana Womanism

 

Now I don't even know what most of these are, and I disagree with a bunch of others


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#5
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Feminist == !@#$


"Your cattle will die, your friends will die, you will die. But your reputation, if it is good, will never die."  -excerpt from the Havamal

 

“We are born into this time and must bravely follow the path to the destined end. There is no other way. Our duty is to hold on to the lost position, without hope, without rescue, like that Roman soldier whose bones were found in front of a door in Pompeii, who, during the eruption of Vesuvius, died at his post because they forgot to relieve him. That is greatness. That is what it means to be a thoroughbred. The honorable end is the one thing that can not be taken from a man.”  -Oswald Spengler

 


#6
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feminism has always been about the empowerment of women. Now, this was all well and good in its roots because women were under powered - they were the underdogs, and history loves an underdog. But now that women are effectively equal to men in the eyes of the law in western nations, theres no need for it anymore. However, as the root of feminism was empowerment, the movement has turned into feminine superiority. Thats all it is now, and theres no need to confuse it, it's about making women more powerful than men.


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#7
Sketchy

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feminism has always been about the empowerment of women. Now, this was all well and good in its roots because women were under powered - they were the underdogs, and history loves an underdog. But now that women are effectively equal to men in the eyes of the law in western nations, theres no need for it anymore. However, as the root of feminism was empowerment, the movement has turned into feminine superiority. Thats all it is now, and theres no need to confuse it, it's about making women more powerful than men.

No you are wrong.

 

Feminism is for men too. After all, if we didn't have feminism, who would teach us men not to rape and keep us out of prison?


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#8
Rozalia

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You could say its a cog in the Progressive machine now. Notice how they, "brave" women, some you'll even find in governments, can speak out against the tiniest things in the west and yet when it comes to Islam and Muslim countries they say not a word? Ironically the most aggressive Feminists, the "bad ones" who I should be most against the ones I can respect the most for actually hitting Islam like it deserves to be.

 

http://blogs.spectat...-their-bravery/

 

So my words to any Feminist would be to... bring Islam in the west to heel first before they dare even mention the rest of us. Remember that they're superpredators when it comes to this you might say.

 


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#9
Aisha Greyjoy

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Internet called them feminazis, which certainly speaks volume of their reputation worldwide and how far they've stray from actual feminism

Actually, that was Rush Limbaugh in 1990. Interesting it took the internet 25 years to catch up.


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#10
Aisha Greyjoy

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Some women take it too far.  As a man, the whole "All men are rapists" thing bothers the hell outta me.  Not quite as much as "All men are pedobears", which bothers me even more.  The strange glares you get from women at a playground until they notice one of the kids is yours is really upsetting.

 

But I have two daughters.  Do you think I want them to live in a country where you can "grab em by the !@#$", brag about it, then get elected?  I want them to live in a country where that is "unacceptable talk", and no one who does that could be a public figure.

 

So, while some of the feminists may go too far, there is still work to be done, especially as it relates to sexual assault. 0.4% of rapes result in a conviction.  Out of 1000, that's 994 rapists walking free (Probably less then that, since most likely its a smaller number of men being serial aggressors:  See Trump).
 

Edit:  And no way would I ever raise my girls in a Muslim country.  Most of them are pretty terribad for women's rights.  Turkey was better until recently(Ergrdan or however you spell it).


Edited by Aisha Greyjoy, 12 December 2016 - 06:24 AM.

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#11
Sketchy

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 0.4% of rapes result in a conviction.

 

That is terribly misleading.

 

I assume you were getting this statistic from here

 

ef9d5aad150308863bcca71aba981527.png

 

 

According to this, 344/1000 are reported to the police. I assume this means that 1000 people ring this hotline, and only 344 report the crime to the police.

 

You assume all 1000 reported rapes in fact happened.

You assume that all 344 rapes reported to the police, without any evidence, were in fact cases of rape.

You assume that the 63 cases when people were arrested for rape, which still haven't been proven in a court of law, are indeed cases of rape.

 

Now, I'm not sure about this, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume the 50 rapes that aren't referred to prosecutors have little to no evidence, amongst other things.

 

This isn't to suggest that these cases weren't rape or were, just that they are not proveable.

 

Now I'm not sure why 1/7 of the convicted rapists are not incarcerated, but unless there is a proper reason then this is obviously not good.

 

 

Now to pivot back to feminism. Feminism is not helping rape victims like it should be. Is there work to be done? Sure, but feminism is far too worried about "manspreading" to invest time in finding reasonable solution to these issues

 

Your issue is you assume because "there is still work to be done" that feminists are the right people to do it. They are not.

 

Let's talk about some of the solutions feminists have for rape.

 

  • Teach men not to rape: Because apparently all men are born rapists, and we need feminism to stop us from raping people. This shifts the focus away from the real issue and finding real solutions. Instead the discussion becomes "men are not inherently rapists vs men are all rapists" instead of "how to help rape victims and prevent rape".
  • Scare victims into silence with misleading statistics: What is a good way to convince women to speak up about rape? Oh I know, convince them we live in a "rape culture" that openly tolerates rape, tell them the police are horrible and don't care about their feelings.
  • Demonize the idea of personal responsibility, leaving women more vulnerable to rape: What if we teach women better self-defense, so they can defend themselves incase of an assault? OH WAIT NO, because to feminists, helping women defend themselves against rape is VICTIM-BLAMING.
  • Trivialize rape by broadening the definition to encompass sexual harassment, then trivialize sexual harassment by broadening the definition: Catcalling = Sexual Harassment. Sexual Harassment = Rape. Therefore, Catcalling = Rape. That is certainly one way to trump up rape statistics.

 

I could go on, but the point is fairly simple. Feminists use rape as a talking point, they use it to push their agenda, to noplatform or demonize men when they can.

 

BOTTOM LINE: FEMINISTS ONLY MAKE THE RAPE PROBLEM WORSE.


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#12
Aisha Greyjoy

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Well, I sure as hell don't see any of these "men's rights" alt-righters doing anything positive about sexual assault.

 

The only people on the right who might be on to something are the 2nd amendment folks.  Cuz, its hard to rape a chic who can shoot you in the face.


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#13
Sketchy

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Well, I sure as hell don't see any of these "men's rights" alt-righters doing anything positive about sexual assault.

 

The only people on the right who might be on to something are the 2nd amendment folks.  Cuz, its hard to rape a chic who can shoot you in the face.

 

I suppose it's easier to gloss over everything I said and then throw a jab like "well I don't see any of these [insert political viewpoint you don't like] people doing anything about it either".

 

That is an extremely unusual position to take. Everyone has different issues that matter to them, just because certain groups don't fight for certain issues doesn't mean they don't consider those issues important. By that standard, all movements should be striving to fix everything. That only serves to dilute the movement by creating too wide of a focus.

 

The difference is feminists champion themselves as the "defenders of sexual assault victims", whilst the "mens right's alt-righters" do not. Also I'm not sure how that specific group is relevant, unless you are implying I belong to it.

 

I've stated before I would consider my political leaning "alt-right", although the term has been distorted a lot now that it has been taken over by the actual right. Alt-right was originally a term to describe people with views that didn't line up with the traditional right, a large portion of them were left-leaning or right-leaning moderates, and they tended to adopt more libertarian viewpoints rather than the conservative authoritarian ones.

 

What I am not though, is a Men's Rights Activist, or a "second amendment folk". I don't advocate men's rights, I prefer to focus on the whole pictures rather than a specific group, and I'm pro gun control being an Australian.

 

I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt and assume that wasn't an ad hominem attack.


Edited by Sketchy, 12 December 2016 - 08:47 AM.

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#14
Aisha Greyjoy

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My point was narrow, that feminism is still relevant because of sexual assault and the very low % of rapists who end up in jail.

 

Your counter-point was also narrow, that feminism isn't the best vehicle to address that.

 

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but I don't see any other movement even talking about it.  No one on the right(except in the context of "protect white women from brown skinned rapists").  And almost no one on the left, except the feminist/femin(whatever bad thing you wanna add, istas, unists, or nazis) is talking about it either.  That's why I fall back on the 2nd amendment.   I can say "Sweety, if some dude tries to 'Trump' you, blow his !@#$ head off."

 

And alt-right is really pretty naughty bro.   !@#$ Aryan Brotherhood shit there.

http://www.nytimes.c...-supremacy.html

http://www.dailywire...michael-knowles

http://www.npr.org/2...f-the-alt-right

http://www.adl.org/c...www.google.com/


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#15
Sketchy

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My point was narrow, that feminism is still relevant because of sexual assault and the very low % of rapists who end up in jail.

 

Your counter-point was also narrow, that feminism isn't the best vehicle to address that.

 

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but I don't see any other movement even talking about it.  No one on the right(except in the context of "protect white women from brown skinned rapists").  And almost no one on the left, except the feminist/femin(whatever bad thing you wanna add, istas, unists, or nazis) is talking about it either.  That's why I fall back on the 2nd amendment.   I can say "Sweety, if some dude tries to 'Trump' you, blow his !@#$ head off."

 

 

Actually my original point was 2 parts, you ignored the first part which was extremely relevant, those statistics are misleading. A very low % of potential rapists go to jail, this isn't a case of 1000 rapists rape people, and 994 get away with it. It's a case of 1000 possible rapes, with 994 of them not ending in a incarceration. Unfortunately, there is no way to know how many of the 994 indeed happened. It could be 900, it could be 20. 

 

I'm not sure if anyone is talking about rape/sexual assault besides feminists. They might be, I haven't done the research. But your argument still makes no sense. Either A: You believe feminists are helping the rape problem not making it worse, in which case you would argue that point instead of deflecting it, or B: you don't in which case, why would you settle for that?

 

 

 

The first article literally proves nothing. It claims the "alt-right" is a rebranding of neo-nazism. Which it isn't. It also provides no actual facts or proof, just the authors word that this is the case.

 

The second article is half correct and half bullshit. Initially, the alt-right was literally just a political term to describe someone who wasn't a traditional member of the mainstream conservative right. It has unfortunately, evolved into a movement. And that movement has over time because overtaken by people like Richard Spencer, who as far as i can see, is indeed a racist.

 

The reality is that now the "alt-right movement" has become toxic similar to that of Feminism and Black Lives Matter. I'll admit, it might be time for me to stop referring to myself as "alt-right", the only reason I still do is I've yet to find anything that more accurately portrays my position, and a large portion of the people who consider themselves "alt-right" haven't let go of the term either.

 

I also don't consider Milo Yiannopoulos a racist either, I follow a great deal of his speeches and the like, and I've yet to see anything "racist" just a bunch of people calling him that, which is no new thing when it comes to the regressive left, who are only liberal when it comes to the liberal use of the labels "racist" and "bigot" to devalue any point they disagree with. It's a classic case of "the boy who cried wolf", they call everyone who disagrees with them, even people who are clearly not, racist, and then it becomes hard to believe them when someone actually racist is accused as such.

 

 

All you did was link me 4 articles saying "look the alt-right is and always has been bad, and everyone in it is bad too". That isn't even a claim you'd find me making about BLM or Feminism, I don't consider all members of those movements bad.


Edited by Sketchy, 12 December 2016 - 11:13 PM.

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#16
Rozalia

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There is in essence a sort of war going on by all accounts. Alt-Right might become a term people will have to discard as it'll be too toxic or they will successfully separate the negative elements into its own term of "Alt-Reich".
We'll see. The Liberal tactic of "you're racist" won't gain them anything even if the term Alt-Right goes into disuse as a result of this.


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#17
Sketchy

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There is in essence a sort of war going on by all accounts. Alt-Right might become a term people will have to discard as it'll be too toxic or they will successfully separate the negative elements into its own term of "Alt-Reich".
We'll see. The Liberal tactic of "you're racist" won't gain them anything even if the term Alt-Right goes into disuse as a result of this.

"Alt-Reich" haha that is a good one.

 

That is another reason why I've been reluctant to ditch the term entirely. The "alt-right" is still a relatively young "movement", although I've never really been a part of the "movement", I just hold certain political views which I share with people who are also alt-right, I do hope it can be reclaimied, although with the media focusing solely on the negative attributes (while doing the opposite for BLM and Feminism), I can't see that happening.

 

Regardless, I'm fully willing to disavow parts of the alt-right I disagree with. I don't support, or make excuses for racists. I don't trivialize racist attacks or racist actions or beliefs. I DO doubt "acts of racism" without evidence, that is not me being racist, It's me being a skeptic, and wanting evidence before assuming guilt.

 

Black Lives Matter, especially their "thought leaders", have not done the same. At best, they say "well we aren't all like that", whilst not denouncing those individuals or saying what they are doing is wrong, or claiming they are not "True BLM supporters". At worst, they actively defend, and make excuses for acts of racism and violence against white people. Hell, some go as far as the claim it is impossible to be racist against white people, a convenient loophole to justify any acts of racism perpetrated against them.

 

I don't think people who want to "preserve european culture and identity" are inherently racist, even though some of those articles made that leap without any real reasoning inbetween. But I'm sure some of those people are also white nationalists and racists, the overlap would be pointless to deny. I for one, don't give a shit about "european identity". That literally means nothing to me.


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#18
Solaire

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https://politicsandw...t/?hl=alt-right

 

we're talking about the current state of feminism, nothing to do with the alt-right


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#19
Lord Floof Floof

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>implying feminism has a place in the modern world and has not outlived its purpose


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#20
Aisha Greyjoy

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I think feminism "teach boys not to rape" is weaksauce.  Feminism should be about female empowerment.  So it should be "teach girls how to cut off a boy's nuts if he's trying to rape them" or "teach girls what do if they get raped" and "help make a society that will believe girls".

it took like 2 dozen women coming forward before people believed Bill Cosby was a rapist.  It took actual recordings of Gretchen Carlson and Roger Ailes before people would believe he was acting inappropriately.  We just don't believe women.  You even don't, when you claim "90% or 2% could be valid, we don't know".   Likewise, we can't just assume 100% of accusations are true.  When women come forward, like trump's many sexual assault accusers, they are attacked as lying sluts and whores.  That's why only 1 in 6 rapes ever gets reported.  Its generally not worth it for a women to report.  She can heal, pay for expensive therapy, and hope she never sees the rapist again, or she can report, be called a lying !@#$ whore !@#$ man-hater and have every aspect of her life torn apart in the quest for "reasonable doubt", and then, 3 years later, maybe start healing and moving on.

 

If you think there's another vehicle to advance sexual assault prevention and addressing how to respond when it does happen, I welcome hearing about it.  

 


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