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Possible Game Updates Currently Being Tested


Alex
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My circumstances are a little unique. I've never joined an alliance and rely on raiding for money. If all resources are looted then my defensive wars are going to hurt me a whole lot. That's why I ask, it might be time to settle down and join an alliance and become a semi-inactive player.

I stand with this argument. Having all resources able to be looted is really rough.

Edited by Hooves
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I stand with this argument. Having all resources able to be looted is really rough.

 

Thinking more about it, the change could hurt alliances even more than they'd hurt me. It's nice that alliances have that safety net as an option, it kind of disappears if the change goes through. I like the % of resources looted and 20-25% of money is fine though, just makes rebuilding even more expensive which is gonna suck since wars might hurt like hell with the proposed system. Is that 20% of money stolen before the piracy perk? So 28% with?

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After further review of espionage numbers, I've reduced the amounts to 1-5%, from 2-15%. This means it would take 20 turns to spy you down to half of a given unit, assuming you were at your max to begin with and every espionage operation you were hit with was targeting that particular unit.

numbers don't work like that. They wouldn't be able to spy half, assuming they spied the maximum amount each time it would be 5%, then 5%, then 5%, then 5%. You would end up with an asymptote rather than killing 50% after 20 spy runs. If this isn't your intention, having the spy op remove a certain percentage of a total potential unit cap would be better.

 

Also to add to the whether raw resources should be able to be looted thing, I think it's perfectly reasonable to keep them unlootable if the old nation caps are restored to specifically raw resources. I'm fine with it being a way to hide stuff but up to 9,999,999.99 worth of each raw is a bit extreme.

Edited by Auctor
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Just to offer a counterbalance against the vocal minority -- the damage to infrastructure and resource looting seem like fair changes. Being able to "stash" resources in non-lootable form was always a silly mechanic, imo.

 

With the new system, does the "Pirate" perk increase the amount looted, or no?

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High Priest of Dio

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numbers don't work like that. They wouldn't be able to spy half, assuming they spied the maximum amount each time it would be 5%, then 5%, then 5%, then 5%. You would end up with an asymptote rather than killing 50% after 20 spy runs. If this isn't your intention, having the spy op remove a certain percentage of a total potential unit cap would be better.

 

Also to add to the whether raw resources should be able to be looted thing, I think it's perfectly reasonable to keep them unlootable if the old nation caps are restored to specifically raw resources. I'm fine with it being a way to hide stuff but up to 9,999,999.99 worth of each raw is a bit extreme.

 

Yes, they do work like that. If the range is 1-5%, on average, we would expect 3% each time. I had a typo, where I said turns, I meant days. You can look at the numbers for aircraft in particular here:

nhTanu8.png

 

Just to offer a counterbalance against the vocal minority -- the damage to infrastructure and resource looting seem like fair changes. Being able to "stash" resources in non-lootable form was always a silly mechanic, imo.

 

With the new system, does the "Pirate" perk increase the amount looted, or no?

 

Yes it does, and the other war policies like Moneybags reduce loot as well.

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Excellent, Alex is using excel to proofread the next update's math.

 

Being able to loot raw materials makes it more difficult to save money.

 

At least make rebuilding infrastructure cheaper, otherwise build tall strategies won't work and the world economy would be stressed from it.

 

Just look at the return of investment from infrastructure. Building 100 infra increases income by $15,000 per day. To make back the money from it within 60 days requires the infrastructure not to be destroyed, which would limit one to 1400 infrastructure roughly.

Of course there's a bit more to it since one can build highly profitable factories, but the problem remains.

 

 

Also: an asymptote will result if the enemy is building aircraft after it gets spied away.

Edited by Fronin
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As a note to everyone else who's posted and I didn't directly respond to - I read your responses and there are some legitimate criticisms. In my opinion, there are also a few concerns which I believe are misplaced or have already been addressed

 

 

no, there is no tool that auto spies stuff away - that is against the rules

i can guarantee that the people making these tools have told sheepy about them and he says theyre ok. 

 

Hi, Alex, this concern seems to be one you missed (unless I missed where you addressed it!). We have multiple people multiple times who have had a nuke miraculously spied away in the time it takes to click to the war screen, select nuclear missile, then click to launch the weapon. In other words, it was not possible, over and over and over again, to buy and launch a nuke before it was spied away. Within approximately 1 - 1.5 seconds or less. This fellow says that cheat, er, I mean, "tool", has been discussed and approved by you. 

 

Could you kindly either confirm, or correct the record? Thanks in advance. 

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I'm aware of how scripts could work, and I've already added a captcha field to Espionage operations if you've paid attention to the thread and changelog on the test server.

 

To further address the issue, what I plan to do is make Missile and Nuke counts hidden from public knowledge, and remove them from the API, so you'll need to do a gather intel operation to know whether someone has missiles or nukes before you can spy them away.

 

Hi, Alex, this concern seems to be one you missed (unless I missed where you addressed it!). We have multiple people multiple times who have had a nuke miraculously spied away in the time it takes to click to the war screen, select nuclear missile, then click to launch the weapon. In other words, it was not possible, over and over and over again, to buy and launch a nuke before it was spied away. Within approximately 1 - 1.5 seconds or less. This fellow says that cheat, er, I mean, "tool", has been discussed and approved by you. 

 

Could you kindly either confirm, or correct the record? Thanks in advance. 

 

Players watching the API and having it generate notifications for themselves is not against the rules. Please read above to see how I plan to address the issue.

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I'm aware of how scripts could work, and I've already added a captcha field to Espionage operations if you've paid attention to the thread and changelog on the test server.

 

To further address the issue, what I plan to do is make Missile and Nuke counts hidden from public knowledge, and remove them from the API, so you'll need to do a gather intel operation to know whether someone has missiles or nukes before you can spy them away.

 

 

Players watching the API and having it generate notifications for themselves is not against the rules. Please read above to see how I plan to address the issue.

 

 

Would attempting to spy away a nuke that isn't there result in a spent op?  i.e. "Your spies were unable to disable any nuclear weapons" or will the current error message still be given and no loss of spy op?  If the former, it would probably be fair to make that apply to Assassinate Spies as well, if the latter, no harm done I suppose.

Edited by Bota
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It might be best to have different ground attack types:

Attack Military (attacks military, destroys less infrastructure, loots little)

Attack Civilian (attacks military, destroys more infrastructure, loots some, less chance of success and higher casualties for attacker)

Pillage Nation (attacks military, destroys less infrastructure, loots plenty, less chance of success and greatest casualties for attacker)

 

and not allow for a flat 10% looting victory.

Edited by Fronin
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Would attempting to spy away a nuke that isn't there result in a spent op?  i.e. "Your spies were unable to disable any nuclear weapons" or will the current error message still be given and no loss of spy op?  If the former, it would probably be fair to make that apply to Assassinate Spies as well, if the latter, no harm done I suppose.

 

Yes, it would. And I will make it apply to Spies as well if it doesn't currently.

 

If missile and nuke counts are removed from public knowledge, will they still contribute to nation score?

 

No

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So when this doesn't have the intended effect on the game's political landscape, what will your next set of small gameplay changes involve?

But on the test server where everyone can get resources just be raiding, it works fine. Safe to say no one will have higher than 4,000 score after this.

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So when this doesn't have the intended effect on the game's political landscape, what will your next set of small gameplay changes involve?

 

What do you mean, changes to political landscape? This is about improving gameplay and player retention.

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What do you mean, changes to political landscape? This is about improving gameplay and player retention.

 

 

By player retention, you mean the ones who are either too stupid or too lazy to to get better at conventional warfare? If so then I understand why you'd lower the war mechanics to their level of mediocrity.

 

- making a system where just using ships/missiles/nukes can easily win wars (Proportion wise, who bets more on those military units? The ones who keep losing);

- increasing the amount of loot (Who are the chronical beigers in this game? That's right, the ones who keep losing);

- removing nuke beige, which only harms the nuker and is a gift to the nation getting nuked (Who's more nuclear prone in this game again? Yep, you got it - the ones who keep losing).

 

Plus, you say you wanna make war cheaper. Now that ships will actually be useful, you'll be forcing people - at least the ones who want to be as well prepared as possible - to get navies, which are expensive af. My guess is that the increased amount of loot won't help you with that cause either.

 

Improving war mechanics by making it dumb and reducing the impact of coordination and skill involved in conventional warfare, whose intricacy and required amount of effort can be rendered useless by nuke/missile lobbing muppets... Topkek.

Edited by Insert Name Here
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Yes, it would. And I will make it apply to Spies as well if it doesn't currently.

 

 

No

 

Admit it, you had never thought about the necessity of answering either of these questions until they were asked because you're just making it up as you go.

 

Which isn't terribly shocking, but still, yowza.

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Not being able to know if someone has any nukes without doing an info-check is ridiculous.

 

If you're concerned about nukes getting spied away too fast (scripting) a decent compromise would be:

-A nuke cannot be spied during the turn it is built in

(or)

-Nukes are only publicly visible if the player with the nuke has less than 25 spies.

 

Also, Sheepy, you should consider the one-free-spy-op-per-day idea from earlier :3

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High Priest of Dio

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Just so that no one thinks I'm crapping on Sheepy's new war system without any alternatives other than maintaining the current one, I'm gonna throw this out there.

 

Imo this new war system wouldn't be absolute crap if a few simple changes were made:

 

- making nukes and missiles not reduce any resistance;

- making ships cost 5 MAPs instead of 4 (which makes complete sense, since naval attacks are supposed to reduce more resistance than airstrikes).

 

Just these 2 suggestions wouldn't make the new war mechanics a total punishment to conventional warfare. Plus, the fact that ships would still reduce resistance would provide an interesting challenge to AAs who bet mostly on conventional warfare, since large navies would have a significant impact and would be tough to take down while the enemy still has a considerable amount of planes. I wouldn't even mind that the new war system's nuke beige and loot amount aspects stayed as Sheepy suggests. 

Edited by Insert Name Here
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If the nuke spying is really such an issue, just make nukes spy exempt, as long as the person has exactly one.

 

This would work on the assumption that anyone <could> have built one and immediately launched it.

 

Removing them from the api/nation display changes the entire meta and is, as such, a major change.

Edited by Manthrax
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Slaughter the shits of the world. They poison the air you breathe.

 

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