The Gentleman Jack - Blue Moon Situation

[Guinevere]

Because of the actions taken by Gentlemen Jack Blue Moon had quickly dissolved over a 24 hour period. I'm just here to write a quick message saying

Blue Moon doesn't condone the actions taken by Gentlemen Jack, and we're working on a way to pay back the money that Jack took. 

This being said, Blue Moon may return at a later time but for now production on our beer has been halted until further notice. We hope that our previous

investors will be willing to invest again after this whole fiasco gets sorted out but we understand if they no longer want to work with our brewery. 

 

 

[Jon Snow]

you're going to pay back money from a guy who renounced his allegiance to your alliance prior to making off with another's bank?

[Guinevere]

you're going to pay back money from a guy who renounced his allegiance to your alliance prior to making off with another's bank?

We're going to pay back what was taken because that is the right thing to do. He can claim whatever he wants to claim but at the end of the day we were just as surprised as anyone else when he pulled that bs. It was a betrayal to Blue Moon and to Treasure Island with what he did.

[Kurdanak]

Good on you, and good luck to you.

[Aksel]

I respect your position on this issue - I can't even begin to understand the distrust/hate you all must be feeling.

 

 

In the meantime...........what the !@#$ am I supposed to do with all of these oranges?!

 

[Hooves]

We're going to pay back what was taken because that is the right thing to do. He can claim whatever he wants to claim but at the end of the day we were just as surprised as anyone else when he pulled that bs. It was a betrayal to Blue Moon and to Treasure Island with what he did.

Whatever floats your boat I suppose.

 

Edited November 15, 2016 by Hooves

[Spaceman Thrax]

you're going to pay back money from a guy who renounced his allegiance to your alliance prior to making off with another's bank?

 

This isn't quite true. It was because Jack was acting as Blue Moon's rep that he was able to take what he did.

 

In any case I'm happy this is moving along and hope Blue Moon is able to reform soon.

[Flame of the Flawed]

Guinevere's always been good to work with. I'll echo Manthrax in that I hope this isn't the last we've seen of Blue Moon. 

[Vack]

It's admirable to want to pay for Jack's shitty moves, but this isn't your fault and you guys shouldn't have to foot the bill for a crime you didn't commit.

Idk, I'm not in TI but I can't imagine 340m to be significant enough to make you guys slave away paying it back.

[Hooves]

This isn't quite true. It was because Jack was acting as Blue Moon's rep that he was able to take what he did.

Tell it to me straight Timmy. Did TI urge Blue Moon to take responsibility for this?

[Spaceman Thrax]

Tell it to me straight Timmy. Did TI urge Blue Moon to take responsibility for this?

 

I suppose? I don't think it takes much urging when someone from your AA's leadership steals, though.

 

All in, the average Blue Moon member would still profit from being a part of TI, even if they end up paying back the entire amount. I know I was surprised when they disbanded, because of that... it's a workable enough situation.

[Cypher]

With Blue Moon disbanding, how do you plan on paying it back? Will you carry the burden alone or will the rest of Blue Moon be expected to chip in?

[MrsPigeon]

If TI urged the disbanded Blue Moon to pay a sum of money TI themselves were claiming was insignificant in another thread then I will lose respect for TI leadership. This hasn't been made clear so I'm not going to make assumptions, but it's an important detail. TI has plenty of money already, to urge BM to pay back what is an extremely large amount for a small alliance is greedy. Again, not making assumptions just stating the obvious.

 

Considering a lot of that money was already Blue Moon's you should consider only paying the amount that was not yours to begin with. Let me be clear: you do not owe TI money that was yours to begin with, especially when that money was stolen from you too.

 

Let's not forget Jack stole money from Blue Moon and then disbanded them for his own gain. He was not acting as their leadership. He went "rogue" as some might call it.

Edited November 17, 2016 by RoboMonkey

[Buorhann]

If TI urged the disbanded Blue Moon to pay a sum of money TI themselves were claiming was insignificant in another thread then I will lose respect for TI leadership.

 

 

Did TI leadership claim this?  $340mil is a significant chunk of change.

 

Also, for someone trying to emphasize on 'not making assumptions' - you're making quite a bit of them.

 

You're forgetting that TI trusted Blue Moon into their ranks to benefit from what we're doing here.  There's principles and sincerity at play here outside of the monetary issues.

[MrsPigeon]

Did TI leadership claim this? $340mil is a significant chunk of change.

 

Also, for someone trying to emphasize on 'not making assumptions' - you're making quite a bit of them.

 

You're forgetting that TI trusted Blue Moon into their ranks to benefit from what we're doing here. There's principles and sincerity at play here outside of the monetary issues.

Please tell me what assumptions I am making. Not only did I say "if", I also said twice that I am not assuming TI leadership did this but that *if* they did then I wouldn't respect them. They probably did not, but if they did then it's ridiculous.

 

Your quarrels then should be with Jack. You trusted Blue Moon just like Blue Moon trusted Jack to be a leader and not steal from them. $341mil is not a large chunk of change for TI. That was explained in detail in another thread. But it is basically an alliance destroying amount at Blue Moon's size.

Edited November 17, 2016 by RoboMonkey

[Buorhann]

Please tell me what assumptions I am making. Not only did I say "if", I also said twice that I am not assuming TI leadership did this but that *if* they did then I wouldn't respect them. They probably did not, but if they did then it's ridiculous.

Fine, I'll point out the first assumption.

 

If TI urged the disbanded Blue Moon to pay a sum of money TI themselves were claiming was insignificant in another thread then I will lose respect for TI leadership. This hasn't been made clear so I'm not going to make assumptions, but it's an important detail.

Semantics. Regardless of your use of an "if" statement or even the fact you pointed out "I'm not trying to make an assumption", you're still making an assumption. You're opening up your post with one and you based your entire opinion on this statement even though you don't know the truth of the matter.

 

Your quarrels then should be with Jack. You trusted Blue Moon just like Blue Moon trusted Jack to be a leader and not steal from them. $341mil is not a large chunk of change for TI. That was explained in detail in another thread. But it is basically an alliance destroying amount at Blue Moon's size.

 

Treasure Island's quarrels, if any, involve both Jack and Blue Moon even if you do not see it that way. "How does this effect Blue Moon?" Jack would not have been involved with Treasure Island if Blue Moon hadn't gotten involved. Blue Moon, unfortunately, is responsible over their memberbase. Just because an alliance member goes rogue, does not excuse the alliance they went rogue from. Simple. Now you're right, there can be friendly compromises between the two alliances to make things work which helps both alliances involved. I'll agree with that.

 

Most likely this is Guinevere's sincerity in trying to reestablish trust back to Treasure Island's leadership, instead of Treasure Island enforcing them to repay.

[MrsPigeon]

Fine, I'll point out the first assumption.

 

 

Semantics. Regardless of your use of an "if" statement or even the fact you pointed out "I'm not trying to make an assumption", you're still making an assumption. You're opening up your post with one and you based your entire opinion on this statement even though you don't know the truth of the matter.

 

 

Treasure Island's quarrels, if any, involve both Jack and Blue Moon even if you do not see it that way. "How does this effect Blue Moon?" Jack would not have been involved with Treasure Island if Blue Moon hadn't gotten involved. Blue Moon, unfortunately, is responsible over their memberbase. Just because an alliance member goes rogue, does not excuse the alliance they went rogue from. Simple. Now you're right, there can be friendly compromises between the two alliances to make things work which helps both alliances involved. I'll agree with that.

 

Most likely this is Guinevere's sincerity in trying to reestablish trust back to Treasure Island's leadership, instead of Treasure Island enforcing them to repay.

You still haven't explained how my statements were an assumption. Do you think I'm assuming TI leadership is enforcing it or that they urged them to? The question of whether they did or not was brought up by Hooves before I mentioned it. So what exactly, be clear, do you think I'm assuming?

 

I guess my only assumption is that Jack was the sole leader of Blue Moon. I'm not certain of this but if he wasn't, then I understand your point. But obviously Jack had the power to just disband Blue Moon. To hold innocent members accountable for their leader's greed doesn't seem right to me. It's not like they had a choice. It's not like they could've stopped him.

[Flame of the Flawed]

To clarify, TI is not having BM pay back any money at all that was theirs in the first place. Additionally, keep in mind that being on TI is still highly profitable for the BM nations who remain on the affiliation, and that giving them the opportunity to make much more money than they would make on any other affiliation certainly cannot be accurately described as forcing them to 'slave away'. So to anyone who has ethical concerns, you don't need to worry. Guinevere has been great to work with and I think all parties involved agree the solution is in everyone's shared interests, and that it increases the profitability of all individual parties, via the income bonus, as compared to what it would otherwise be. 

Edited November 17, 2016 by Flame of the Flawed

[MrsPigeon]

To clarify, TI is not having BM pay back any money at all that was theirs in the first place. Additionally, keep in mind that being on TI is still highly profitable for the BM nations who remain on the affiliation, and that giving them the opportunity to make much more money than they would make on any other affiliation certainly cannot be accurately described as forcing them to 'slave away'. So to anyone who has ethical concerns, you don't need to worry. Guinevere has been great to work with and I think all parties involved agree the solution is in everyone's shared interests, and that it increases the profitability of all individual parties, via the income bonus, as compared to what it would otherwise be.

 

Thank you! This is all I wanted, and all people who believe similarly to me wanted. No respect lost If anything, respect gained Edited November 18, 2016 by RoboMonkey

[Buorhann]

You could've literally just PM'd Jessica or some other person in TI about it.

[Eragon]

You could've literally just PM'd Jessica or some other person in TI about it.

But I want everyone to notice my discontent

[MrsPigeon]

You could've literally just PM'd Jessica or some other person in TI about it.

Why? It's a public issue, it was made public by other people other than me. The topic of them possibly urging them was brought up by someone other than me. I was responding to this publically because I believed everyone has the right to know whether or not TI (71% Syndicate and Mensa) was abusing their power. If you don't agree then so be it. Sucks to suck.

 

Maybe next time present yourselves more clearly and honestly in public like he did instead of fighting and debating me about useless semantics and getting all defensive about it?

Edited November 19, 2016 by RoboMonkey

[Buorhann]

Ok, Mr. eWhite Knight. You should start up a Justice Council and investigate any and all alliances if they're "abusing their power".

[vonnorman]

#EWhiteKnightsRISE!!!!

[MrsPigeon]

Ok, Mr. eWhite Knight. You should start up a Justice Council and investigate any and all alliances if they're "abusing their power".

Sorry, I stand up for the little guy unlike most everyone else ðŸ’🼠Edited November 19, 2016 by RoboMonkey