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Gun Control, Facts Vs Liberals


Donald Trump
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1. Felons can't own guns. 

2. I take it you support mental health to be included on NICS checks? That won't happen because of HIPAA regulations. This is something the semi-left-wing ACLU supports. The fact that both conservatives and liberals are wary points to the fact that changes to privacy laws are complex and controversial. Any rational person agrees that the mentally ill should not be able to legally purchase firearms. But just try to share that data with the FBI and see how many attorneys come out of the woodwork. 

 

Interesting. 

 

1. That proves my point. The Second Amendment only applies to the extent which owning a gun increases security of a free state (per the Constitution). It requires a bureaucratic legal process proving one has been "reformed" in order for convicted felons to restore their gun rights. 

Edited by cmdchrist

“Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. They were haughty and did an abomination before me. So I removed them, when I saw it.â€

 

Ezekiel 16:49-50

 

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1. That proves my point. The Second Amendment only applies to the extent which owning a gun increases security of a free state (per the Constitution). It requires a bureaucratic legal process proving one has been "reformed" in order for convicted felons to restore their gun rights. 

Yes, not everybody should own guns. However, many people in this thread (and some who haven't posted here yet) believe in a total ban. Even banning out of practical use is banned by Heller. They claimed that the handgun ban and the trigger-lock requirement violate the Second Amendment. 

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1. That proves my point. The Second Amendment only applies to the extent which owning a gun increases security of a free state (per the Constitution). It requires a bureaucratic legal process proving one has been "reformed" in order for convicted felons to restore their gun rights. 

Do you believe in a national registry?  This will determine where you stand on gun control.  Most 2nd amendment advocates agree that criminals should not have guns, but making it harder to get legally is not going to help in the least bit.  Do you think criminals get their weapons legally?  The answer is they don't and the government only uses these shootings and crimes as a tool to disarm the law-abiding populace.  You are playing right into Federal hands.

"Your cattle will die, your friends will die, you will die. But your reputation, if it is good, will never die."  -excerpt from the Havamal

 

"We are born into this time and must bravely follow the path to the destined end. There is no other way. Our duty is to hold on to the lost position, without hope, without rescue, like that Roman soldier whose bones were found in front of a door in Pompeii, who, during the eruption of Vesuvius, died at his post because they forgot to relieve him. That is greatness. That is what it means to be a thoroughbred. The honorable end is the one thing that can not be taken from a man."  -Oswald Spengler

 

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The Constitutional point is that the foundation of the Second Amendment is its entire purpose, securing the free state, not one clause of it, owning guns. 

 

You are playing right into Federal hands.

 

News flash: The Constitution is the basis of the federal government.

  • Upvote 1

“Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. They were haughty and did an abomination before me. So I removed them, when I saw it.â€

 

Ezekiel 16:49-50

 

☭

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The Constitutional point is that the foundation of the Second Amendment is its entire purpose, securing the free state, not one clause of it, owning guns. 

 

 

News flash: The Constitution is the basis of the federal government.

I already proved you wrong on the 2nd Amendment.  You obviously don't have a grasp of the English language and either cannot interpret something so basic or are extremely dishonest.  Anyways, come and take; we'll see what happens.  

 

News flash: You are absolutely right that the constitution is the basis of the Federal government and just proved my point.  It declares its limits and boundaries as well as asserting the rights guaranteed to the American people.  There you go.  I used bold and italics, since you obviously have trouble understanding the purpose of the American constitution.

"Your cattle will die, your friends will die, you will die. But your reputation, if it is good, will never die."  -excerpt from the Havamal

 

"We are born into this time and must bravely follow the path to the destined end. There is no other way. Our duty is to hold on to the lost position, without hope, without rescue, like that Roman soldier whose bones were found in front of a door in Pompeii, who, during the eruption of Vesuvius, died at his post because they forgot to relieve him. That is greatness. That is what it means to be a thoroughbred. The honorable end is the one thing that can not be taken from a man."  -Oswald Spengler

 

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Anyways, come and take; we'll see what happens.  

 

068-01329.jpg

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“Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. They were haughty and did an abomination before me. So I removed them, when I saw it.â€

 

Ezekiel 16:49-50

 

☭

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068-01329.jpg

Armed insurrections throughout the country?  Yeah, the army would be spreading its forces thin and you can be sure that many red states won't be bowing down to the Federal Government.  The National Guard and 200 million gun owners is going to be pretty hard to deal with.

"Your cattle will die, your friends will die, you will die. But your reputation, if it is good, will never die."  -excerpt from the Havamal

 

"We are born into this time and must bravely follow the path to the destined end. There is no other way. Our duty is to hold on to the lost position, without hope, without rescue, like that Roman soldier whose bones were found in front of a door in Pompeii, who, during the eruption of Vesuvius, died at his post because they forgot to relieve him. That is greatness. That is what it means to be a thoroughbred. The honorable end is the one thing that can not be taken from a man."  -Oswald Spengler

 

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Someone forgot the Waco siege happened I guess

“Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. They were haughty and did an abomination before me. So I removed them, when I saw it.â€

 

Ezekiel 16:49-50

 

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I don't know why you would think a massacre of near 200 million would ever happen. That would mean no taxes, and the US would open itself up to foreign invasion. Be realistic here

 

???

 

 

Someone forgot the Waco siege happened I guess

Edited by cmdchrist

“Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. They were haughty and did an abomination before me. So I removed them, when I saw it.â€

 

Ezekiel 16:49-50

 

☭

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Do you believe in a national registry?  

Cmdchrist, at least answer some of our questions like the above one. 

 

The Constitutional point is that the foundation of the Second Amendment is its entire purpose, securing the free state, not one clause of it, owning guns. 

You keep saying that the Second Amendment is for securing the free state and not owning guns. Then ignore the line where it straight up says "the right of the people to keep and bear arms." Let'sput that into perspective. 

A well-balanced breakfast necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed.

Does that mean that you may only keep and eat food as long as it is the start of a healthy day? 

 

???

200 people confined in one building =/= 200,000,000 people spread through 3,797,000 sq. mi. 

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But if they arm against the government, wouldn't they be traitors? xd

They would only be traitors if they lose; much like how the American revolutionaries were traitors in the eyes of Great Britain. Then there's the fact that the American constitution defines the nation and outlines the limits of a lawful government. Thus if the federal government were to infringe upon the constitutional rights of the people, it would be unlawful and resultingly a tyrannical force. In this case, any and all armed rebellion would be justified by the American people and the federal government would clearly be the traitors from an objective standpoint.
  • Upvote 1

"Your cattle will die, your friends will die, you will die. But your reputation, if it is good, will never die."  -excerpt from the Havamal

 

"We are born into this time and must bravely follow the path to the destined end. There is no other way. Our duty is to hold on to the lost position, without hope, without rescue, like that Roman soldier whose bones were found in front of a door in Pompeii, who, during the eruption of Vesuvius, died at his post because they forgot to relieve him. That is greatness. That is what it means to be a thoroughbred. The honorable end is the one thing that can not be taken from a man."  -Oswald Spengler

 

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But if they arm against the government, wouldn't they be traitors? xd

Distasteful, I do distasteful things sometimes anyway. The oath is to obey the orders of the President and defend from all enemies foreign and domestic.

 

Octavius' assumptuons are so naive it is almost comical. I do worry about his mental well being though.

 

Anyway, that shot is not happening.

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I would find it distasteful to kill American citizens.

Alas, that is what gun fetishists want.  They spout Jefferson lines like "The tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of patriots and tyrants once a generation...", but ask them to specify and they get shy.  Like "You believe the purpose of the 2nd amendment is to protect your right to have the arms to shoot at American police officers and soldiers?"

When they say yes, you've got someone who is ideologically consistent and even if the prospect of another civil war scares you, at least give them the respect they are due for being free of hypocricy on the issue.  However many gun fetishists also fetishise police and the military, so it unravels for a lot of them.

 

I think you'll find its the "armed libertarian" types who are most "ideologically pure" on the 2nd amendment.  The "don't tread on me", "every man is an island", and "get the government off our backs" types.

 

Edit:  I argued with a relative on this point, and he was sure he'd be killing some snot-nosed liberal college kids  coming to get his guns.  And I'm like "No, its gonna be sheriff Joe, and if you scare him off, its gonna be the national guard with tanks, APCs and the like."

Edited by Aisha Greyjoy

Duke of House Greyjoy

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Alas, that is what gun fetishists want.  They spout Jefferson lines like "The tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of patriots and tyrants once a generation...", but ask them to specify and they get shy.  Like "You believe the purpose of the 2nd amendment is to protect your right to have the arms to shoot at American police officers and soldiers?"

When they say yes, you've got someone who is ideologically consistent and even if the prospect of another civil war scares you, at least give them the respect they are due for being free of hypocricy on the issue.  However many gun fetishists also fetishise police and the military, so it unravels for a lot of them.

 

I think you'll find its the "armed libertarian" types who are most "ideologically pure" on the 2nd amendment.  The "don't tread on me", "every man is an island", and "get the government off our backs" types.

 

Edit:  I argued with a relative on this point, and he was sure he'd be killing some snot-nosed liberal college kids  coming to get his guns.  And I'm like "No, its gonna be sheriff Joe, and if you scare him off, its gonna be the national guard with tanks, APCs and the like."

It would be not ideologically inconsistent unless the motives of the government were static.  The government as defined by the American constitution is supposed to protect; not attack the freedoms and liberty of its citizens.  Conservatives are supportive of the military and police force when they are for the people and not against it.  This is because Conservatives value law and order just as much as liberty and without these two vital institutions, America would either fall into anarchy or be subject to a belligerent foreign power(liberty means freedom from powers both domestic and foreign).  It is important to distinguish between a limited government and the absence of one if you are to understand American conservatism.

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"Your cattle will die, your friends will die, you will die. But your reputation, if it is good, will never die."  -excerpt from the Havamal

 

"We are born into this time and must bravely follow the path to the destined end. There is no other way. Our duty is to hold on to the lost position, without hope, without rescue, like that Roman soldier whose bones were found in front of a door in Pompeii, who, during the eruption of Vesuvius, died at his post because they forgot to relieve him. That is greatness. That is what it means to be a thoroughbred. The honorable end is the one thing that can not be taken from a man."  -Oswald Spengler

 

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Hurrrr.

-snip-

That is how you kick in a door.

 

Dont forget the Stryker or Brad behind the door kicker.

What makes you think that they will enforce it? (See Q 14 in the pic)

 

 

4kdf3Xj.jpg

 

 

 

You said (in another thread) that molotovs can take down tanks. 

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Because they will. Soldiers do as instructed despite what the E4s on 4chan tell you.

 

I said 1,000 molotovs would. Your "not a militia" thing would break long before this facing a combined arms team.

1.4 million soldiers vs around 200 million gun-owning Americans over 3.797 million square miles.  Armed insurrections are happening throughout the country with nowhere to pinpoint.  American forces are spread thin and citizens are gaining control of military firearms and ammunition via captured/killed military personnel.  At this point, you might want to reconsider your fantasy scenario where the uber-powerful government is able to suppress a massive population of angry Americans who have everything to lose.  Rebellions have almost always won because of the populace's will to fight.  If it can't break the will of the people, then it will have to commit more forces thus rendering the entire country vulnerable to foreign invasion.The government isn't going to risk losing most of its own populace and manpower when it realizes that people aren't just going to back down.

Edited by Octavius
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"Your cattle will die, your friends will die, you will die. But your reputation, if it is good, will never die."  -excerpt from the Havamal

 

"We are born into this time and must bravely follow the path to the destined end. There is no other way. Our duty is to hold on to the lost position, without hope, without rescue, like that Roman soldier whose bones were found in front of a door in Pompeii, who, during the eruption of Vesuvius, died at his post because they forgot to relieve him. That is greatness. That is what it means to be a thoroughbred. The honorable end is the one thing that can not be taken from a man."  -Oswald Spengler

 

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1.4 million soldiers vs around 200 million gun-owning Americans over 3.797 million square miles.  Armed insurrections are happening throughout the country with nowhere to pinpoint.  American forces are spread thin and citizens are gaining control of military firearms and ammunition via captured/killed military personnel.  At this point, you might want to reconsider your fantasy scenario where the uber-powerful government is able to suppress a massive population of angry Americans who have everything to lose.  Rebellions have almost always won because of the populace's will to fight.  If it can't break the will of the people, then it will have to commit more forces thus rendering the entire country vulnerable to foreign invasion.The government isn't going to risk losing most of its own populace and manpower when it realizes that people aren't just going to back down.

 

ugh, your straw man is hilarious if it was not for the fact that your clan seems to believe it.

 

No 200 million people will not spontaneously rise up at the sound of some dog whistle and form themselves into a random organized body cpaable of dealing with a modern joint combined arms force.  It is ridiculous to think that is within the realm of possible (we are not in Hollywood land kids).

 

If the government decided to take your guns then the police would come to your door and take them from you and you would give it to them.  If you were dumb enough to resist you would get tazed and your guns taken away.  If you shot at them you would be dead.  If small group wandered into the hills the military could easily destroy them or let them hang out until they got tired and came in to give up their guns.  It is a simple scenario.

 

I promise that joe American does not care more about his guns than his life or his family.

 

You kids should stop watching so much TV.

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ugh, your straw man is hilarious if it was not for the fact that your clan seems to believe it.

 

No 200 million people will not spontaneously rise up at the sound of some dog whistle and form themselves into a random organized body cpaable of dealing with a modern joint combined arms force.  It is ridiculous to think that is within the realm of possible (we are not in Hollywood land kids).

 

If the government decided to take your guns then the police would come to your door and take them from you and you would give it to them.  If you were dumb enough to resist you would get tazed and your guns taken away.  If you shot at them you would be dead.  If small group wandered into the hills the military could easily destroy them or let them hang out until they got tired and came in to give up their guns.  It is a simple scenario.

 

I promise that joe American does not care more about his guns than his life or his family.

 

You kids should stop watching so much TV.

The argument overall is based on personal biases from all sides.

Fact is there is no one coming for guns any time soon. Another fact is there would be more conflict from differing branches in local, county and state governments before any military action would be called upon.

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ugh, your straw man is hilarious if it was not for the fact that your clan seems to believe it.

 

No 200 million people will not spontaneously rise up at the sound of some dog whistle and form themselves into a random organized body cpaable of dealing with a modern joint combined arms force.  It is ridiculous to think that is within the realm of possible (we are not in Hollywood land kids).

 

If the government decided to take your guns then the police would come to your door and take them from you and you would give it to them.  If you were dumb enough to resist you would get tazed and your guns taken away.  If you shot at them you would be dead.  If small group wandered into the hills the military could easily destroy them or let them hang out until they got tired and came in to give up their guns.  It is a simple scenario.

 

I promise that joe American does not care more about his guns than his life or his family.

 

You kids should stop watching so much TV.

As the he types away furiously, the keyboard warrior is certain he has made his mark.  He takes solace in the assumption that the nanny state government will come to his rescue.  "It is time for those crazy gun toting Conservatives to learn their lesson", he says.  "This will show them and everyone will be safe from their intolerance once and for all!"  

 

I did not say that all 200 million gun owners would rise up in a sudden glorious revolution.  I merely pointed out that 200 million is pretty damn large number compared to 1.4 million.  If only 5 percent of the gun owners decided to resist, that would still be 10 times the amount of American soldiers.  You can spout your opinion all you want, but don't tell me what I would do if they threatened to strip me of my constitutional rights.  I alone know what I would do in that situation and it is not your place to assume anything.  I'm also pretty sure if I was shooting at them, some of them would be dead as well.  Like I said, they can't afford massive casualties and running into any significant amount of resistance from the American people will be enough to stop them.  It is only when the people have lost the will to fight that they have lost.  To refuse to fight for one's freedoms only shows that one is a coward who cannot even fight for what he holds dear.  You don't speak for all Americans, so stop trying to.  Just remember that you will be the one who submitted willingly to tyranny, because you preferred a peaceful life of slavery to that of fighting for your family and countrymen.  I really hope I'm mistaken and you are not an American, because it makes me sick to know that people like you can sit safely behind your screens and advocate stripping away the freedoms of your own fellow citizens.

Edited by Octavius
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"Your cattle will die, your friends will die, you will die. But your reputation, if it is good, will never die."  -excerpt from the Havamal

 

"We are born into this time and must bravely follow the path to the destined end. There is no other way. Our duty is to hold on to the lost position, without hope, without rescue, like that Roman soldier whose bones were found in front of a door in Pompeii, who, during the eruption of Vesuvius, died at his post because they forgot to relieve him. That is greatness. That is what it means to be a thoroughbred. The honorable end is the one thing that can not be taken from a man."  -Oswald Spengler

 

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